This red scrip system doesn't seem very casual-friendly..

[Fenral]

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Just trying to plan ahead. I'm more concerned with the crafter scrip yields, honestly, because the reward varies a lot more on a day-to-day basis.

[Nanga]

Just trying to plan ahead. I'm more concerned with the crafter scrip yields, honestly, because the reward varies a lot more on a day-to-day basis.

I agree, and in addition to that, I feel the weekly cap is just way too low. We're already gated in so many other ways - mats being one of them - it just seems silly with how long we have to wait just to get one little gear improvement, that only crafters/gatherers can use. We're basically gated to gear up ourselves, forget about anyone else.

[Fenral]

I agree, and in addition to that, I feel the weekly cap is just way too low. We're already gated in so many other ways - mats being one of them - it just seems silly with how long we have to wait just to get one little gear improvement, that only crafters/gatherers can use. We're basically gated to gear up ourselves, forget about anyone else.

That's precisely the point of the cap, unfortunately. Gear yourself, then gear others. They're trying their damnedest to suppress the ability of those five people (you know, them) on a given server who can guarantee HQ anything at a cost that lets them sell just low enough suppress others from getting in on the market. The problem is that they've unintentionally hamstrung the people who actually do want to specialize, even though that's the playstyle they wanted to encourage.

The current cap and gear prices put it in line with the DoW/DoM gearing restrictions, which only let you focus on one Job at a time, which, as someone who only ever focused on a few of the many available crafters and gatherers, is fine with me. The idea is that different players will start off gearing different classes, and the inability to do everything on your own right off the bat will foster cooperation with other players, increasing the rate at which gil circulates, ultimately creating a better economy for everyone. It's a sound concept, but it's been implemented into an economy that was already too badly damaged for this kind of system to work as intended at launch.

By leaving the cap as-is, the overall speed of gearing stays the same as for combat classes, but by increasing the rate at which players can obtain red scrips towards that cap, it becomes a lot less punishing for specialists like myself to hit cap. The weekly cap also impacts the rate at which the materials for the crafted AF hit the market, which in the short term means that the people who already have the melded shared gear to acquire those materials now can sell at ridiculous prices to the extremely small minority that can afford them right now. Those players, however, still lack the gear required to guarantee HQ anything, so they are taking a rather sizeable risk by even attempting those recipes now. Ideally, they fail more than they succeed, putting tens of millions of gil (per attempt) back into circulation in the process and making them much more cautious of future attempts.

In a month or so, when players who skipped melding gear to go straight to red scrip gear have finally geared up enough on one class to spend red scrips on favors instead, the amount of materials on the market will increase dramatically, driving prices down to levels that will allow the less-wealthy red-scrip-geared crafters to buy them as well. That will increase the availability of crafted AF2, allowing people limited by the weekly cap to start gearing their other crafting classes in addition to their mains. There will even be a (small) market for the NQ crafted AF2, as it can simply be glamoured over the red-scrip version to make that same gear dyeable.


Tl;dr: the idea is that for the current omnicrafters to stay omnicrafters, they will need to buy things from other people, increasing the rate at which gil circulates, ultimately allowing more players to participate in the economy in smaller roles. It's also no longer possible to become an omnicrafter in a day.



...Or at least, I'm sure that's how this system was pitched to Yoshida. Time will tell if it really has a positive impact on the economy.

[Gilthas]

(...)

This point of view has one big problem:

- It's true that DoW and DoM will likely focus on gearing one job at a time, but then again, you only need 1 job to do ALL battle content. The same is not true for DoH and DoL.

SE needs to stop designing content around the MB and instead design it around players. Keeping prices on the MB is a vicious cycle that only leads to people complaining that they can't make gil, which in turn leads SE to make items rarer to drive up the prices for people that make gil by farming mats.

I love the ability to craft everything on a single crafter, yet have no interest in farming gil off of the MB and would be pretty happy if the damn thing was just removed from the game.

[Fenral]

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Not having a Market Board at all was one of 1.0's biggest problems, especially since buying gear from other players was the only way to gear after level 20. When you get right down to it, it's really just another way for players to interact.

While it may not appeal to you, omnicrafting made it too easy for players to profit by selling items below what it cost non-omnicrafters to make them in the first place, creating an artificial barrier to entry that more or less turned crafting into "omni or nothing," which further lessened the appeal of crafting, which further reduced the number of players doing it, allowing a small number of players to dominate the market. You'd see the same names on everything being sold.

I believe the intent of the current system is to make it easier for more players to produce fewer items, instead of allowing a few players producing in bulk to dominate the economy. This increases the appeal of crafting to players who only have time to specialize in one or two classes, ultimately increasing the overall accessibility of the economy, making things cheaper for everyone. You will, eventually, be able to craft everything yourself again, but being able to at launch with 2.0 was a problem that's had two years to escalate.

They misstepped in one or three places at 3.0 launch, but if the upcoming adjustments to red scrips make it easier for specialists instead of punishing them, I believe it will be a step in the right direction.

So, not only are crafters gated behind the things I already mentioned but crafters are ALSO gated behind combat classes gearing up in order to get mats for the crafters. Yet another gate. How many gates do the combat classes have which rely on crafters currently?

Unlike 1.0, which made you a bystander and gave you a proxy character to fight for you in Main Scenario quests, crafting in 2.0 was only ever intended as a supplement to combat classes. Wait for the new relic. If it's anything like the first one, there will be plenty of crafting requirements involved.

And I realize I said a lot in my earlier post, but it will probably only take about a month or two for omnicrafter gearing to be possible, not an entire year, and even then that's assuming you still feel the need to buy all eight sets of crafted AF2 and perfectly meld them, which isn't actually necessary for the master recipes, just makes them much less reliant on RNG. Red scrips will also be uncapped at some point, allowing you to get the rest without buying the crafted versions, but obviously they can't uncap from the get-go.

They're still trying to find a balance that will let "casual" (your word) players feel like they can keep up while also keeping the truly frightening players from accomplishing everything immediately and cornering the market. They've also pretty much acknowledged that the current system is hampering the former more than intended, which is why adjustments are happening.

[GunnarWolfram]

Unlike 1.0, which made you a bystander and gave you a proxy character to fight for you in Main Scenario quests, crafting in 2.0 was only ever intended as a supplement to combat classes. Wait for the new relic. If it's anything like the first one, there will be plenty of crafting requirements involved.

Yeah it was made clear that it was to supplement combat classes, but at least in 1.0 I felt needed, I had a reason to craft and my linkshell members needed me to provide them with Glues and Dyes throughout the game. Right now the way crafting and gathering are set up is to make money and that money is pointless because the only things you would want to spend money on are for crafting and gathering gear. glamour/minions, and housing. Raid minded people have no reason to spend money in 3.0 for anything that crafters make and the raid content is why a majority of people play this game.

All gatherers and crafters are asking for is a reason to spend this time and effort and SE has make it very hard at this current time. There was hope for change and it didnt come in a positive direction, but a negative one. And no-one would care about omnicrafting if there was a legit reason to level one class. At this time that has yet to be realized.

[Xerius]

Yeah it was made clear that it was to supplement combat classes, but at least in 1.0 I felt needed.

If memory serves, crafted gear with melds was BIS in 1.0.

The issue seems to be flying over everyone's heads that doesn't craft/gather though. We're not asking for gear to be BIS. We're not even asking for it to be competitive with raid gear. We're just saying that in the current system there is absolutely no reason for a crafter to make DoW/DoM gear at all. If you were to even attempt it you'd lose millions of gear. Even in months to come, why would you buy crafted gear for several millions? If you're a DoW/DoM you'll have half of you esoteric gear by then and the strats for all the endgame will be set. It doesn't matter how rare an item is if it has no purpose and no amount of adjustments to scrips is going to fix that. I don't think that they realize that more circulating gil is going to increase prices of gear, that no one wants to buy in the first place.

[Nanga]

That's precisely the point of the cap...Gear yourself, then... They're trying to suppress the ability of those five people on a given server...

Sorry, but it's just not fun, nor does it help casual gamers who AREN'T those *5* uber crafters, when it takes over a year to get all your gear, and that's if you ARE an uber crafter.

Here's where the argument of "overall speed of gearing stays the same as combat classes" also breaks down: 1st, my combat class i-level is already far above and beyond what my crafters can get. Secondly, combat classes rely absolutely NONE on crafting classes, while crafting classes rely on combat classes for materials. (As the crafting system is currently designed)

So, not only are crafters gated behind the things I already mentioned but crafters are ALSO gated behind combat classes gearing up in order to get mats for the crafters. Yet another gate. How many gates do the combat classes have which rely on crafters currently?

[scarebearz]

Tl;dr: the idea is that for the current omnicrafters to stay omnicrafters, they will need to buy things from other people, increasing the rate at which gil circulates, ultimately allowing more players to participate in the economy in smaller roles. It's also no longer possible to become an omnicrafter in a day.



...Or at least, I'm sure that's how this system was pitched to Yoshida. Time will tell if it really has a positive impact on the economy.

I am an "omnicrafter", I have no problem spending more to gear my crafting classes and to make i180 crafted gear, but the gear needs to be worth what the mats cost.

Currently the mats for *anything* 2* are cost prohibitive, due to the insane grind needed and weekly caps. I am not going to spend 30mil gil to *attempt* to craft a HQ robe (if i can get ther mats for under 30mil...) when the most anyone (hc raiders) is willing to pay would likely be 15mil.

Due to the above the masses of gil myself and other "high-end" crafters have amassed will sit on our retainers doing nothing, where as before in previous patches we would have been feeding 100's of millions of gil into the in game economy, in crafted mats, drops, etc.

Currently end-game crafting is fairly dead and stagnant.

[Fenral]

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It's a deliberate speed limiting mechanism that has been out for less than a week. If you're frustrated by not having things now... Working as Intended™?

I'm sorry, but you're not supposed to be able to max everything day one and be able to spend the entire patch cycle accruing wealth. That people even can buy mats now for 30 million gil is a part of the problem, not the solution.