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  1. #1
    Player
    pandabearcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,517
    Character
    Alizebeth Bequin
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 90

    Every Tank should have dps/tank stance be off-GCD and not reset their combo

    There isn't a single good reason not to.

    This isn't singling out warriors - they have it the way every tank should. It should be seamless, to promote tank dps strategies, instead of a painful GCD and combo wipe.

    Even healers have their dps stance offGCD.

    Warriors even get to keep their abandon/wrath stacks.

    It isn't their "niche" it is something all tanks do now and should be able to benefit from.
    (18)

  2. #2
    Player
    ZhycranaDranix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    572
    Character
    Zhycrana Dranix
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    This would make PLD a lot more likable , it'll actually add another dynamic to our game play
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player
    Captain_Flavor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    21
    Character
    Captain Flavor
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    That would be nice. Trying to stance dance as DRK is a pain in the ass.
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    stoxastic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    215
    Character
    Stox Diamond
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    There is actually a reason why Shield Oath/Grit is on the GCD while Defiance is not. Defiance merely increases your maximum HP, but doesn't heal you to top yourself off, whereas using Shield Oath immediately gives you 20% mitigation. If you're at 10k life, going into defiance won't help you against a 10k ability unless you get healed up. If shield oath is off GCD, you pretty much have an on demand rampart.

    Putting Oath stances and Grit off the GCD are too powerful as it highly minimizes the risk of going into dps stances.
    (14)

  5. #5
    Player
    Mattiux's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    88
    Character
    Mattiux Black
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by stoxastic View Post
    There is actually a reason why Shield Oath/Grit is on the GCD while Defiance is not. Defiance merely increases your maximum HP, but doesn't heal you to top yourself off, whereas using Shield Oath immediately gives you 20% mitigation. If you're at 10k life, going into defiance won't help you against a 10k ability unless you get healed up. If shield oath is off GCD, you pretty much have an on demand rampart.

    Putting Oath stances and Grit off the GCD are too powerful as it highly minimizes the risk of going into dps stances.
    Invalid argument. You can keep your stacks and use Inner beast to get the same effect as soon as the stance switch happen.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player Dererk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Limsa
    Posts
    1,162
    Character
    Dererk Titan
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by stoxastic View Post
    There is actually a reason why Shield Oath/Grit is on the GCD while Defiance is not. Defiance merely increases your maximum HP, but doesn't heal you to top yourself off, whereas using Shield Oath immediately gives you 20% mitigation. If you're at 10k life, going into defiance won't help you against a 10k ability unless you get healed up. If shield oath is off GCD, you pretty much have an on demand rampart.

    Putting Oath stances and Grit off the GCD are too powerful as it highly minimizes the risk of going into dps stances.
    says the war with 2 stances and can transfer your stacks between the 2. WAR use dps stance get full stacks oh gota pull hate I'm low on hp switch to tank stance still have full stacks inner beast I get hp bk. Use blood bath.

    You lost your argument to have the only tank stance off gcd when you got your dps stance and can transfer your stacks between the 2.

    And besides there's another reason as to why PLD and DRK should not have their stances on the GCD.

    WE NEED TO USE MP WARS DONT. SO no its not something we can just use as a big hit is in coming.
    (2)
    Last edited by Dererk; 07-22-2015 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #7
    Player
    AnimaS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    215
    Character
    Anima Soulcleanser
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by stoxastic View Post
    There is actually a reason why Shield Oath/Grit is on the GCD while Defiance is not. Defiance merely increases your maximum HP, but doesn't heal you to top yourself off, whereas using Shield Oath immediately gives you 20% mitigation. If you're at 10k life, going into defiance won't help you against a 10k ability unless you get healed up. If shield oath is off GCD, you pretty much have an on demand rampart.

    Putting Oath stances and Grit off the GCD are too powerful as it highly minimizes the risk of going into dps stances.
    ehh defiance also increases healing and now accuracy. also gives you immediate access to Instant Healing Equilibrium (as opposed to TP) , Defiance Wraith moves etc. You can go into defiance and hit equilibrium and be at full health. The stacks are interchangable .....so if you have 5stacks in Deliverance you have 5 Wraith in Defiance... That is powerful. I swap from defiance to Deliverance and back very often,smoothly
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player
    Giantbane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    1,534
    Character
    Adol Giantbane
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by stoxastic View Post
    There is actually a reason why Shield Oath/Grit is on the GCD while Defiance is not. Defiance merely increases your maximum HP, but doesn't heal you to top yourself off, whereas using Shield Oath immediately gives you 20% mitigation. If you're at 10k life, going into defiance won't help you against a 10k ability unless you get healed up. If shield oath is off GCD, you pretty much have an on demand rampart.

    Putting Oath stances and Grit off the GCD are too powerful as it highly minimizes the risk of going into dps stances.
    too powerful? exaggerate much?

    It still costs a resource to go into/out of the tank stance for DRK/PLD. War pays the cost in HP. For the DRK this is a primary resource, arguably more important than the 20% hp (lot easier for a healer to restore the HP than for anyone, including the DRK to get that mana back). For the PLD, who cares, they're supposed to be the easier, more straightforward tank. The risk is that you take more damage while you're in DPS stance, that's more than enough.

    If you took the oaths/grit off the GCD it wouldn't imba anything. It would just be a nice QoL change for DRK/PLD, and that's it.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    Arkard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    35
    Character
    Guilty Feet
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Giantbane View Post

    If you took the oaths/grit off the GCD it wouldn't imba anything. It would just be a nice QoL change for DRK/PLD, and that's it.
    And then what? Defiance/Deliverance still has a cooldown while Shield/Sword Oath/Grit do not? Yeah, no, totes balanced.

    It's not a QoL change. You don't even know what that means. People throw around that term and you haven't the foggiest idea of what it means for the game. You can't just use a term like that as an absolute when you have zero idea of how it affects the game.

    Queueing for a dungeon with a chocobo could be called a QoL change. What is being proposed here is a balancing change. It may not seem like a huge balancing change to you, because you haven't the means to test what it does for encounters. Still, it is a class change, so call it what it is.

    Stop pretending this was a clunky implementation for an ability, which is what QoL changes correct. There's a reason Defiance and Deliverance were both explicitly programmed to work the way they work and other tank stances were not. You can't even make the claim that it is an outdated implementation of stances because they did the same god damn thing with a class that came out a fucking month ago.

    It is a design decision. Not an oversight. Is the decision based on what people in this thread are speculating it's based on? Maybe. Maybe not. But it is a choice the design team made, for whatever reason, and they are unlikely to unmake that choice based on a five-page thread that provides, at best, flimsy reasons to do so.

    So far the only argument made for this change is in the OP: 'There isn't a single reason not to.'

    Really? That's the argument you're making for this change?
    (3)
    Last edited by Arkard; 07-24-2015 at 02:46 AM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Arkard View Post
    There's a reason Defiance and Deliverance were both explicitly programmed to work the way they work and other tank stances were not.
    There WAS a reason when WAR didn't have a second stance, and had to build its wrath stack from scratch before being able to use any skill.

    And back in the days, I found it totally justified from that alone.
    (1)

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