R.I.P. brd

[Vaeria]

Had enough. Its bad enough we've had to deal with the positioning issue (too far, low damage, too close, get prostate-massaged for free) Worse still when Blast Shot became Blast-run-up-and-touch-even-though-i'm-on-a-ranged-job. But this latest business of fugging with Barrage/forcing us to utilize Wanderer's Minuet (or Grass-Guass? Barrel for mch) is just the end of the rope. Its like..w/o using it..you're just a lvl 50 job in a 60cap match. And yet...

Any half decent brd could tell ya what RS > HE > B4B > Barrage (and an x-potion) USED to do. Hell..I wouldnt even have issue with smn's godstomping power as it stands now because it'd at least be a decent exchange. But now forced to stay stationary once popping WM/GB...let alone the fact that it CAN'T be immediately turned off right after cast in a duel where repositioning's needed? The job's doomed in FL even now unless its just plain ignored. God help any idiot who decides to bring it to Wolve's Den in the future. Just saying.

[nickx]

You can still do great damage in Frontline, even without Wanderer's Minuet. Here's an example from last night:


http://i.imgur.com/mVo5HnR.jpg?1

I will rarely use Wanderer's Minuet since it cannot be turned off for 15 seconds afterwards. I also find myself running either towards or away from enemies constantly, so having it on can put you in tricky situations trying to do damage while moving constantly.

As for Wolves' Den, it's hard to say how they'll do right now, although Warden's Paean might be really amazing there if left unchanged.

[Hamayumi]

I wouldn't get caught with WM in frontlines. You have to be mobile in a PvP setting. As a turret you're a sitting duck for deathflares, fell cleaves, LBs, or someone just plainly running through you to interrupt your cast. Even worse if you get caught with it and have that 15 second window to wait until you can turn it off. You can die twice in 15 seconds.

[Vaeria]

Beautiful numbers Nickx but I can't help but notice a few things. 1. Everyone (at least listed in shot) on adders has high numbers. 2. You died 0 times, which seems to suggest you were ignored, or just had great backup. 3. The 2 smns in shot seem subpar (been seeing 300k/15 kill+ smns alot as of late farely consistantly.)

I'm not at all saying brd CAN'T do damage (went 13/1 in a 24 man myself so I know it retains some decent output.) But as I did say, during duels (all the moreso as will be the case in Wolves Den) when brd will be under HEAVY pressure, the way things are now..its going to crack as it won't be able to utilize its heaviest damage options. (Hamayumi said it all well enough)

[Vaeria]

Just as an example..say by brd's current setup..a drg was on your tail who knew EXACTLY what it was doing..full cds and all. With the old burst/distancing, you might've had a decent shot. But with the way barrage works now, removing Empyreal Shot, taking out WM altogether, seriously..what damage options are you left with? Yeah, I know its all situational but these flaws are gonna factor in more and more sooner or later ;/

[The_Last_Dragoon]

Just as an example..say by brd's current setup..a drg was on your tail who knew EXACTLY what it was doing..full cds and all. With the old burst/distancing, you might've had a decent shot. But with the way barrage works now, removing Empyreal Shot, taking out WM altogether, seriously..what damage options are you left with? Yeah, I know its all situational but these flaws are gonna factor in more and more sooner or later ;/

2.X pre-WM Bard damage hasn't really changed (it's technically gotten stronger), and they recently turned WM into an instant cast, allowing you to pop it on and off in battle pretty easily. The main thing to realize is that if you're being targeted as a Bard, then you don't use WM, if you're not, then you could potentially turn it on to get off a Barrage'd Empyreal Arrow and then doff WM immediately. The problem you're running into is that a lot of classes got new tools, and you can't play cat and mouse with certain classes like you could before.

BTW, you can get past the 1000 character limit by using "edit post"

[RiceisNice]

...

It's that WM makes you stationary, you lose the ability to not only kite (which is not as big of a deal because you can turn it off), but more importantly to adjust your distance relative to your target. No one is ever gonna stand still if they're getting pelted by a MCH or BRD, not even a blackmage. On the other hand, WM is also a damage boost to every other skill, even instant cast ones like farshot, bloodletter and sidewinder.

[nickx]

You're right, that damage was a perfect game with a healer friend. These are some examples with deaths and very little healing received: http://i.imgur.com/Zbs0mxD.jpg?1 http://i.imgur.com/u6wUIeJ.jpg?1. In theory, Summoners should always be top damage, and they are sometimes.

I promise you that we can excel in FL, it's all about awareness and always standing at the right distance from the enemy for maximum damage. In duel situations against a good DRG, you'll certainly need to save cooldowns and sprint kite them as best as possible. Yeah, you won't do max damage, and you'll still lose at times, but it's winnable.

For Wolves' Den, if you have a DRG/Tank/SMN on you full time, I agree, you're likely dead or won't do as much damage. In these cases, you are going to need coordination from your team to CC/Slow them so the enemies are managed and you can kite with ease. The nice thing however, is that Warden's Paean will act like a second Purify in there, so you won't be slowed/slept as often.

[RiceisNice]

Bard's burst damage is pretty scary, enough to bring down a unsuspecting player through boosted sidewinder, straighter shot, farshot and bloodletter while under the effects of WM. The problem with that is that yo ustill need to maintain that sweetspot range, and otherwise you won't really get much of a damage boost out of WM unless its exclusively for instant casts. Same for MCH too with reassembled cleaner shot and BTE.

What I'm really nettled about is just how unusable ranged LB is due to the amount of incline/decline on seal rock. You'll never hit anything that's on a different elevation (even by a ilm) so it's not even good for those bottle neck nodes like the center one or A4.

[Stormrider]

If bard is even with mch? I have seen them pop 7k attacks followed up by close to 2k attacks. Bard is a watch burst or kill steal job.

I swear 90% of bards are less then intelligent. You ain't soloing anything if that is your issue. Unless the other player is bad. I swear I used to get once a game a bard that though they were going to solo a sch at 50%. You know who wins with out cleric stance? Not the damn bard.

So the complaint about bard is weak. It is a playstyle choice in a game that is designed around TEAM play not solo play. Yet a large percentage of bards think they can solo.