Serious feedback on Astrologian after clearing A1 Savage.

[SonTensei]

I think if you choose to put AST in your raid group for progression and keep the dps checks where they need to be the party composition cannot have a BRD or MCH.

[Ryel]

It's not that he has bad complaints. I haven't played astro, but they seem like all good observations and relevant comparisons to SCH/WHM.

But see, he could have just started the post with:

"I don't post here a lot, I was told to post here by SE staff if I wanted to give feedback. Here are my concerns ...[lists off concerns]"

But he didn't do that, he just had to throw in that extra bit about all the posters on the forum sucking and not worth his time to even reply to. Hence, my reply.

He didn't say that at all actually, he made an accurate observation that most threads like this devolve into bickering and fights on the forums. If you took that personally I'm not sure what to tell you other than the fact that you're proving his point.

[Giantbane]

He didn't say that at all actually, he made an accurate observation that most threads like this devolve into bickering and fights on the forums. If you took that personally I'm not sure what to tell you other than the fact that you're proving his point.

I respectfully disagree about the part of him only making an observation of most threads, but in the spirit of not devolving into pointless off topic bickering, I'll just leave it at that

[Nadirah]

I respectfully disagree about the part of him only making an observation of most threads, but in the spirit of not devolving into pointless off topic bickering, I'll just leave it at that

He was pretty spot on actually.

Most of general discussion is a slew of bitch threads.

[Brundlefly]

Get........

......Good.

[Giantbane]

He was pretty spot on actually.

Most of general discussion is a slew of bitch threads.

You don't think many of the authors of said bitch threads thought they were providing honest feedback?

[razzgrizz3]

aggreed completely. i was quite aghast at reading so many posts on patch day about how ast is finnaly saved and ok for raiding enviroment.
glad to see someone finaly puting up a detailed post on the issue.
heck i couldnt be bothered with how terrible the forum population is...

[Cynfael]

You don't think many of the authors of said bitch threads thought they were providing honest feedback?

You can provide honest feedback while bitching; it's just difficult to provide constructive feedback that doesn't somehow incite bitching from others even if you yourself had no intention of starting it. Internet problems.

On a side note about the actual topic, I can only agree. My static isn't in a position to clear Savage A1 yet with our regular DPS not being very available and/or sufficiently geared this week, but even just from running more casual content like Alexander (Normal) and Ravana EX the difference is crystal clear to me as SCH main with equally geared AST.

Even considering that I've been playing SCH for over a year and AST for less than a month, the difference in contribution to the raid effort is real. Anyone who has played both SCH and WHM will hit the ground running with AST, and no matter how you leverage those tools, you just can't really hang with the other two healer jobs played at a similar skill level in any situation.

When paired with my static's WHM, my SCH puts out decent HPS and noticeable DPS. My AST, similarly paired, will almost always end up either just short of the WHM's HPS and DPS or higher in DPS but significantly lower in HPS. In both cases the overall raid damage is higher when I play SCH.

(Disclaimer: No, HPS is not a very useful metric for determining healer ability if considered in a vacuum, but when you've done a fight many times, you know what is a reasonable and necessary overall healing output, especially when comparing it to damage output from both healers.)

[Ryel]

I like how the dude said 6 posts ago that he was willing to move on and we still cant get back to the topic at hand, let it go people that derail is over.

More to the point:

Can we get some more suggestions as to what can be done to increase the viability of AST endgame? I'm seeing more an more ASTs getting discouraged by their place in progression content.

[elemental10]

I'm a budding AST, currently level 43 (or was it 42?) and I am loving the way how it works.

The advantage of an AST is, of course, the buffs that are given by the cards. When a card is drawn, you'll never know what it is and how you're going to use. That, in itself is a disadvantage because we cannot be 100% sure of what comes next, making it somewhat RNG, and therefore unreliable.
The buffs from the cards supposedly makes up for what AST lacks in both healing and mitigation. The cards give benefits that are varied across the floor but at a mediocre potency, hence why Royal Road is there to buff them a little, also in varied ways.

I was a WHM main before I became a WAR. I healed through all the way to Stone Vigil and then stopped because I wanted to play a tank again. After several whiles, I leveled my SCH.

The playstyle of both WHM and SCH is quite different and yet connected in some ways. Both heals well and each has a distinctive playstyle, which I had to learn for my SCH for some while.

So, I took the same approach to AST. Relearning on how to heal as an AST, instead of as a WHM or a SCH.

I am currently in the process of learning to balance the cards buffs to what is needed at the time, to the amount of healing I give out. AST is more of steep learning curve than SCH, but without the third wheel provided by the fairy. If you fail to catch up on your heals, you will fail with no backups (excepting the instant heal ability). That is why each and every decision that you make in a fight will affect the outcome more than any WHM or SCH will. This is why I view AST as it's own league, a mechanical class that foresees the future of the battle and acts accordingly.

I learned that a card draw must not be wasted, even if you draw a bad card. Certain cards are very reliable at certain times, while others not so. That's why an AST's knowledge of not only the jobs in the game, but the situations in hand must be strong enough to give the best effort for the fight.

For example, pre-pull you draw a Spire. That's not a bad card but it won't be best used until somewhat later in the fight. The tank pulls and you have 3 mobs. You look at your team composition of PLD, NIN, and SMN. Then, you look at how they play (does the NIN casts his mudra correctly, does the SMN banes his dots, does the PLD spam flash instead of RoH?). Then you look at how strong the mobs are and how fast they go down. Then, you look at the NEXT encounter and predict how long that ONE will go.

All that, in a matter of the 15 seconds you need to process to make use of the Spire.

Do you royal road it, do you shuffle it, do you keep it? This decision will impact on how your performance throughout the dungeon/raid/run/leve/whatever. This is how I see AST as a mechanical class that puts your knowledge of the game to the test. If the RNG isn't good for you, what do you do? You make the best of situations. That is where AST will determine his impact on the fight. You draw a bad card and turn it into a good situation.

"But AST is a healer not a support!!!11!!!"

That's why it's a steep learning curve. I remember back in the day, I used to spam Adlo on my SCH and finding out why my mana runs out so fast and yet the tank is still half health? Then I see there are situations when you need Physicks instead of Adlo. That is also true with AST. There are times to draw, there are times to sit there and babysit the tank, but there are also times to make the call and take the risk. The important thing is to keep your healing throughput as steady as possible, without the interruption to cast Draw. If you manage to pull this off, and I am still learning to do this in Stone Vigil, you are already a great AST.

Having said that, I'm still on a long road to 60 and have yet to really feel endgame with an AST. But the core concepts of AST needs to be out there and understood. It is a class that gives you the worst kind of cards in the most crapped up situations it can throw at you (your tank is dying, 2 of your DPS is dead and the other healer is OOM, while you are struggling to stay alive) and forces you to make the best of it with a Spear card.

I think we need to change the effects of the cards themselves. A lot of them helps our team members in things, but not us directly in healing. If the balance card can also increase our healing potency by 10%................. that would be great. Or simply combine the Ewer and Spire and make a new card that helps us to heal more. Or make a certain RNG when you draw a card that your next card would be the one associating with it (Arrow with Spear, Ewer with Spire, Bole with Balance) to increase your move after the next draw.