Every Tank should have dps/tank stance be off-GCD and not reset their combo

[winsock]

Ok, you're not making a point. "Things are they way they are" is not a point.

My point is that they can both gain similar mitigation in a similar amount of time as the game exists currently.

switching to Defiance off GCD + activating Innerbeast on gcd
is similar to
activating Shield Oath on GCD

Why should PLD be able to switch off GCD when its pretty even already?

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

Paladin is hindered in the current meta because they are currently the tank that has the hardest time dealing with MT responsibilities effectively..

What? Explain yourself!

[karateorangutang]

My point is that they can both gain similar mitigation in a similar amount of time as the game exists currently.

switching to Defiance off GCD + activating Innerbeast on gcd
is similar to
activating Shield Oath on GCD

Why should PLD be able to switch off GCD when its pretty even already?

So everytime a tankbuster coming you switch to defiance right before that? You could anticipate it and let a regen tick hit you... and mitigate this weakness with no negative to you at all.

As I said that is a situational weakness.

Now if the MP cost on Paladin and Dark Knight stances was randomly mititgated... then it would be equal.

[winsock]

It's called "reactive" vs "proactive".

So activate shield stance proactively
and I'll activate defiance proactively, so that i have enough time to active innerbeast

[karateorangutang]

What? Explain yourself!

As I said in my first post like 5 pages ago this is all from what i've been reading, but it seems to me that in the current meta WAR has a spot in every raid in some way or another. This is great!

This however should not be at the expense of the other tank jobs. Now you can be the best and play Paladin at such a level that it doesn't matter. The general player base however has a strong love of WAR right now. This is a topic for another thread though so.. yeah.

/end

[winsock]

So everytime a tankbuster coming you switch to defiance right before that? You could anticipate it and let a regen tick hit you... and mitigate this weakness with no negative to you at all.

As I said that is a situational weakness.

Now if the MP cost on Paladin and Dark Knight stances was randomly mititgated... then it would be equal.

Cant help but ask if you are trolling me... Are you really being serious?
Are you really trying to say that a single regen tick after a tank buster, is worth anywhere near 20% mitigation of said tankbuster...

MP cost is another discussion for another thread IMO, and one that i probably wouldnt get involved in, but would read (my initial thought is that you have MP cost because you dont have a cd, but no opinion atm on whether or not its the right cost). Maybe start a discussion on it? seems interesting.

[karateorangutang]

Cant help but ask if you are trolling me... Are you really being serious?
Are you really trying to say that a single regen tick after a tank buster, is worth anywhere near 20% mitigation of said tankbuster...

MP cost is another discussion for another thread IMO, and one that i probably wouldnt get involved in, but would read (my initial thought is that you have MP cost because you dont have a cd, but no opinion atm on whether or not its the right cost). Maybe start a discussion on it? seems interesting.

I'm not trying to troll you.

I was exaggerating for effect. If your using defiance as a last minute resort to mitigate damage then your doing it wrong.

I'm just done with this.. if your not understanding my point then I guess there's no point.

I still think its a worthwhile option. Not that there isn't others to explore.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Warrior
Stance Dance Tank

Dark Knight
Resource Management Tank

Paladin
Cooldown Tank

We need more separation. I say we remove the stances from Paladin/Dark Knight altogether and give them something more unique. The same amount of damage reduction, or reduced damage in different ways.

We should be making classes "DIFFERENT" not all the same.

Big No.

[Ditto]

ITT: pridewarriors

Pridewarriors everywhere. "MUH STANCE DANCING UNIQUENESS"

Cause that's all War has going for it, right? The ability to freely swap between a tanking stance, and a DPS stance, that of which hell, Drk doesn't even have. "b-b-but Darkside!" Darkside is not a true DPS stance in the same way that Del/SoO is, shut up. It's a weaker Maim with a constant cost.

People seem to forget that Deliverance also gives a 5% bonus to damage dealt. That alongside Maim and slashing resist debuff puts their damage through the roof.

And to those saying that switching into Defiance and IB'ing = SoO/Grit.... got news for you buddy

That isn't how it works. The only thing not instant from Defiance in the HP restoration, because that does not come into effect until you get healed.. BUT immediate Inner Beast puts you ABOVE Paladins stance for those 6 seconds. Going from Deliverance to Defiance increases your HP by 25%, healed up or not, Inner Beast following literally gives you the mitigation that Grit/SoO gives a Drk/Pld. Sure, your HP might not be healed up, but it doesn't need to be. IB's HP restored and the mitigation already puts you beyond both tanks in their tank stance, because that HP you're left with is equivillent to what any Drk or Pld should be at 100% topped off, + 25% HP, + the 20% mitigation they both have, + the 20% extra healing you receive, + the HP you restored from Inner Beast.

Anything a Drk/Pld will survive in their tank stance, a Warrior freshly popped into Defiance + Inner Beast will survive too, only with a little more HP left. (Other CD's aside)

[Argyle_Darkheart]

If you had to build it from scratch, a weakness.
As it is, a strength

That's what allows WAR to do a huge burst even while main tanking.

If, for any reason, they decide that stacks wouldn't transfer anymore, I'll be advocating to keep Oath and Grit as they are to compensate.

See, I would say it's both a strength and a weakness.

I made this point earlier, but WAR needs Defiance more than PLD or DRK needs Shield Oath or Grit, despite how the jobs may be played. Inner Beast, for example, means that Defiance offers more of a defensive increase than Shield Oath or Grit. To balance this, however, everything else around Defiance is weaker in comparison to the other tanks. In terms of defensive capabilities, a Defiance WAR might tank better than a Shield Oath PLD or a Grit DRK, but a Deliverance WAR tanks worse than a Sword Oath PLD or a Grit-less DRK.

Because WAR gains more from being in Defiance, it loses more for being in Deliverance. That is, when it comes to stance dancing, Defiance's strength becomes its weakness. Therefore, WAR needs to be able to stance dance more easily than the other tanks; that's why it's oGCD.

A similar argument could be made for Deliverance, but I'm not sure if WAR gains more from Deliverance than PLD gains from Sword Oath.

This doesn't necessarily mean that Shield/Sword Oath or Grit should remain on GCD (though I think they should). Rather, my point is that Defiance/Deliverance being oGCD isn't at all arbitrary.