Astro in savage

[Dyvid]

AST isn't terrible though.

Also everyone does know Astro has a perma potency buff in the form of Noc stance ? 5% is nothing to scoff at.

I prefer Noc over Regen stance because there are tons of fights where I need to heal big and that 5% is very helpful.

Also Ewer is a god send now and was an indirect buff to Noc as light speed was. ( why you would use light speed in regen stance Idk I never bothered with it)

Honestly this statement says why Noct is bad. You're not using for the benefits it gives to Aspected heals and abilities but purely for the 5% healing buff. Also the fact that we hold Spear and Ewer for ourselves shows we have short coming in the mana department.

[Noira]

I will simply agree to disagree.

[kiraan]

Honestly this statement says why Noct is bad. You're not using for the benefits it gives to Aspected heals and abilities but purely for the 5% healing buff. Also the fact that we hold Spear and Ewer for ourselves shows we have short coming in the mana department.

Exactly what i was discussing with a friend about our mana issue. We "seems" ok now but we have to keep Ewer for us and even use celestial opposition for personal gain.

Thats a huge concern i have with AST mana issue, i'm supposed to buff mainly others, not myself, just to cover my own weaknesses.

[Richiealvian]

It's good to hear people using noct after so much bashing on it! I have been using it a lot derping around doing lvl 50 things because in higher level play the main reason I prefer diurnal is that 1 or 2 ticks off of CU in an emergency could be lifesaving and noct CU just doesn't seem worth it, and TD doesn't do crap for noct either...Getting both regens and a buffed bole TD on the tank is great breathing room for fixing derp mistakes someone else made, or adding dps of my own....So when I am level synced below those abilities the shields are great.

@Richiealvian Was it no issue double shield with your sch parter because you co-ordinated your shielding, because the damage was constant enough for shields to always be popping, or because one of you didn't shield much and focused more on raw healing? Were one or both you able to dps much?

edit-also did you stack virus/disable and cu/ss or trade off who was using which cd? Basically having more constant cds or having very potent double cd

It actually worked out perfectly. There are parts where I was solo healing (well, could say I copied the other AST's video), sch could dps and I was the only shielder. Jagd doll comes, I get Fey Illumination and we were healing different tanks. SCH doesn't have a Benefic 2 powerhouse, so a 7k buffed benefic 2 is just really awesome. If anything my only pet peeve was that I did 26 dps the whole encounter. Only braved myself to use gravity 2-3 times the first few pulls. The difference is crazy, 4.3k becomes 4.8k that's just amazing and will scale more with gear. The shields also do save you from some oh shit situation, it's like a somewhat extra lustrate cause in total it's over 3k unbuffed. Also, essential dignity is buffed with noct as well.

At some point with conva and stuff I remember critting for 16k.. that's really massive.

Here's our clear video, we did have some oh shit moments with the tank..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwerbtDeBFw

[Vlady]

Finally people who understand the value of Noc stance. It's like people who go huh when a machinist takes feint from lancer.

Nov stance is incredibly powerful. Just people jump on the astro is weak band wagon.

[Spoekes]

It actually worked out perfectly. There are parts where I was solo healing (well, could say I copied the other AST's video), sch could dps and I was the only shielder. Jagd doll comes, I get Fey Illumination and we were healing different tanks. SCH doesn't have a Benefic 2 powerhouse, so a 7k buffed benefic 2 is just really awesome. If anything my only pet peeve was that I did 26 dps the whole encounter. Only braved myself to use gravity 2-3 times the first few pulls. The difference is crazy, 4.3k becomes 4.8k that's just amazing and will scale more with gear. The shields also do save you from some oh shit situation, it's like a somewhat extra lustrate cause in total it's over 3k unbuffed. Also, essential dignity is buffed with noct as well.

At some point with conva and stuff I remember critting for 16k.. that's really massive.

Here's our clear video, we did have some oh shit moments with the tank..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwerbtDeBFw

IMO, the vid does not do good service showing off the strength of Noct Stance.
If anything, it shows Noct AST is able to heal it and the 5% buff is usefull.

However, the times you actually used the aspected spells (THE trademark of the sect) can be counted with one hand and I'm not even joking.

[Richiealvian]

Yeah, I almost never used the aspected, it's the OH SHIT I FORGOT TO HEAL button, it's not mana efficient but the extra heal itself 5% makes you very efficient with all your skills. Benefic hits like a truck. Notice the power of benefic 2 spam during the double spiders.

[Ghishlain]

Fair enough. I think I understand where you are coming from. I think you may be one of those people who gets caught up in trying to provide helpful information that often polite word choice gets forgotten. I'm guilty of the same sometimes.

Sorry for calling you out in such a way. I hate seeing people use their knowledge to make others feel inferior, and I originally and incorrectly had you pegged as someone who did that.


Back on topic people!

Indeed, stuff happens and the like and nobody is perfect (as much as we'd all like to think that!). Though some continued irony to the whole thing - I also forgot to divide by 2 in one of my equations earlier. >>; Though I guess that's better than dividing the server by 0 (harhar, terrible joke abound). I will admit this discussion has gotten me thinking more and more about how to handle the cards and I wouldn't be thinking about it more if not for the initial "math talk" with Richard.

Since I already have a very basic model in place, here's some more thought behind it.

If you take my existing model and substitute X = 10% (current Arrow / Balance values):

Y = 0.0274*0.10 + 0.0069*0.10 + 0.0231*0.10 = 0.0574X
Y = 0.0574 * 0.10 = 0.574%

You can loosely determine that AST's overall contribution to the 8-man DPS is 0.574%.

Now, let's say we keep the buffs the same but reduce the cooldown of Draw to 20s and Shuffle down to 40 seconds, effectively allowing the AST to draw 50% more cards than normal within the same model:

Extend = X * (30 uptime / 40 downtime) * 19.72% of raid damage * 55.5% chance to get Arrow / Balance * 50% chance for Extend = X * 0.0410
Enhance = X * 1.5 Enhance Bonus * (15 uptime / 40 downtime) * 19.72% of raid damage * 55.5% chance to get Arrow / Balance * 16.7% chance for Enhance = X * 0.0103
Expand = X * 0.5 Expand Penalty * (15 uptime / 40 downtime) * 100.00% of raid damage * 55.5% chance to get Arrow / Balance * 33.3% chance for Expand = X * 0.0347

Y = 0.0410X + 0.0103X + 0.0347X = 0.0860X

And then see how it looks with the existing 10%
Y = 0.0860 * 0.1 = 0.86% boost to overall DPS

If you want to try to have Balance and Arrow buffed to match that the assumed 1.5% Fey Wind provides using this draw frequency
X*0.0860 = 0.015 = 0.015 / 0.0860 = 17.4%

Arrow and Balance would need to provide 17.4% Attack Damage / Haste to match the assumed 1.5% Fey Wind provides.

Again, I will reiterate this is a very simple model that makes a lot of assumptions about Haste and doesn't take into any data of how the other cards can indirectly increase DPS potential as those values are difficult to quantify at this juncture.

Looking at the above, I think I'd actually be pretty happy if Draw was reduced to 20s versus the current 30s. And it would partially settle some concerns regarding AST trivializing some tight DPS if they chose to massively buff the cards instead.

[Cynfael]

Finally people who understand the value of Noc stance. It's like people who go huh when a machinist takes feint from lancer.

Nov stance is incredibly powerful. Just people jump on the astro is weak band wagon.

I see you say things like this a lot, but without anything to support it.

If you're truly invested in the class, you'll want to see it brought up to the level of the other two healers.

The math (including actual party performance math, not just napkin math) doesn't lie about the current disadvantages of AST, and I, for one, don't want to see AST relegated to the niche class ghetto, because that's where it's headed. It needs to be better than "fine" or "not bad" to prove a strong choice for all kinds of content.

[Alahra]

Honestly, at this point I'm pretty sure Vlady is just trolling. He never actually *argues* for anything he says, one way or the other. He just says it.