Astro in savage

[MistralLevante]

so if i get this right the OP and his supporters, want AST to have equal healing power to WHM or SCH, but give more dps to the raid than both? how is that gona be ballanced? and would the other jobs have the same problem if the AST has their healing power + more DPS? what would be the point to play SCH or WHM then?

Their specific wants may be too much, but the general opinion of the raiding community seems to be that AST is not exactly in a great place right now either.

[DarkmoonVael]

so if i get this right the OP and his supporters, want AST to have equal healing power to WHM or SCH, but give more dps to the raid than both? how is that gona be ballanced? and would the other jobs have the same problem if the AST has their healing power + more DPS? what would be the point to play SCH or WHM then?

Ah no, a little bit of a misunderstanding here. What is being argued by the majority of the people here is that AST, as a healer first and foremost, needs to heal to the same capacity as a WHM or SCH to be viable in end game content.

The issue centering around DPS stem from the fact that SCH can put out a beastly amount of DPS itself as well as buffing their parties DPS (fey wind). It has emergency, instacast heals to facilitate the stance dancing.

Likewise WHM, with its new found lvl 52-60 abilities, can do beastly DPS in a raid, which is again facilitated by it powerfuly emergency heals.

AST at the moment can not bring much DPS to a raid, lacking the ability to quickly regain the healing situation once cleric stance is dropped, and its buffs are weaker than the SCH in terms of over all contribution to raid DPS.

Ther are lots of suggetsions on this thread. Some centre around the increase of AST support capabilities so the AST can increase the DPS of others to counteract the shortfall of overall DPS due to AST struggling to DPS itself. Some centre around increasing the number of emergency heals an AST has, thus facilitating the AST stance dancing and contribution to overall group DPS. Other are a hybrid of the pervious 2.

But, more than anything, the majority of people seem (feel free for anyone to disagree with me here, after all not everyone has the same opinion) to acknowledge the need to increase the AST healing capacity, healing cooldowns and emergency heal ability to make it a healer that is as viable in end game content as WHM and SCH currently are.

[RichardButte]

so if i get this right the OP and his supporters, want AST to have equal healing power to WHM or SCH, but give more dps to the raid than both? how is that gona be ballanced? and would the other jobs have the same problem if the AST has their healing power + more DPS? what would be the point to play SCH or WHM then?

That's really not what anyone's asking for.

No one wants AST to be overpowered by having godly heals and godly buffs (not anyone in their right mind, anyway), but AST either needs to bring as much to a raid as SCH/WHM do or there's no point in ever bringing one, ever.

The buffs are pretty damn terrible right now, but making them more potent isn't going to make the AST better at keeping people alive or anything so I don't personally think that's the route to go.

[Vlady]

Some very strong points made. A well thought out post but balance I believe is the only buff that exponentially buffs all damage across the board including cooldowns. If you manage to spread it pretty fight it has bumped dragoon dps by several hundred on burst phases and the 20 point potency hit only averages out to about a 5% heal difference. If someone dies while astrology was healing then the raid was moar likely in trouble anyhow.

[jojober]

Tried making a general thread, but of course it got pushed to the back of the line immediately. I made a smaller reply about this idea in an earlier AST thread here on healer forums, but here is a little more thought out.

Hi hi^ ^ I know there have been a million threads about AST and how to change them etc etc, but I had what I think was a good idea. I put this as a reply to a thread in the healer forum, but since Grekumah said to post how we thought changes could be good, I decided hopefully here it has a better chance of getting noticed.

I know most AST, myself included, don't want to be a copy/paste of whm or sch. We want to be our own type of healer. WHM is kind of burst healing, SCH is best for Mitigation. So where can we fit in without stepping on toes? We are supposed to be a hybrid healing job, so let us be, and here's how...

Right now, Diurnal Sect is our go to for most stuff. It is basically a watered down WHM. We have decent heals without all the awesome cooldowns, and we have our cards that are meant to balance the slightly weaker heal kit. What if we flipped that for Nocturnal Sect? Instead of having good heals and minimal card support, what if our cards were as strong as our diurnal heals, and our heals were as minimal as our diurnal cards?

Several times when the question of adding a support role has come up, the answer has been no because that would cause a problem with party/duty finder, and that makes sense to me. We are still healers though, we would queue as such. Then we would analyze the situation and decide when is best to be in heal mode and when is best to be in support mode, much like how whm/sch stance dance with Cleric's. This would of course require the ability to change stances in battle, but to make it so we can't do it all at once, there should be some kind of cool down on that.

How does this make us unique? Instead of burst heals or mitigation heals, we are helping the battle to go faster and or safer. I feel like that is the direction the job was meant to go in the first place. This idea still incorporates the risk v reward feeling that a lot of AST want, and it adds a new level of strategy since we wouldn't be able to flip back and forth.

Now I am no balancer genius, so I won't propose what each card should do in its buffed up state, so I will not even try that. But if anyone has an idea of what would be reasonable to make our Nocturnal Support side work, please lets get some ideas going!

Sorry again for the millionth thread, but I hope you took the time to see it through!

Jojober

[NorthernLadMSP]

I really liked the idea someone else had (sorry, can't remember who it was) about adding a brand new switchable stance where one stance would strengthen the heals (up to the equivalent of WHM/SCH) while keeping the cards as they are now and the other stance would keep the weaker heals like we have now, but really buff up the cards. So, you could choose to be in Diurnal and Nocturnal as they are now, but there would be this additional "heal" stance and another "buff" stance. I know that would make me very happy.

[Koopatroopa]

Reduce Draw to 15seconds
Shuffle cannot re-draw the same card
Collective Unconscious = added benefits- 'Nocturnal- increases direct heals taken by 15%, Diurnal- increases shields by 20% - Remove the channel but silence the caster. Can click to stop it prematurely

Celestral Opposition = remove the stun and 5 second buff extension, gives everyone the Spread card to full effect.

Time Dilation = reduce cooldown to 1 minute, also doubles target Ast shield strength.


Synergy with the WHM/SCH, weaker heals stay but make up for the buffs they provide as they can be pumped out more frequently. I think this is a nice tradeoff.

[EchuKayu]

Question: Why does Aspected Helios have a 15y radius and Medica II has a 20y radius?

Is it because Succor has a 15y radius, and since Aspected Helios is the same spell in different stances, they sacrificed the extra 5y because they didn't want the nocturnal shields to have 5y on Succor? Would that really have made such a big deal? 5y is a lot when you're trying to get your HoT on everyone, especially the tank.

[Alahra]

Question: Why does Aspected Helios have a 15y radius and Medica II has a 20y radius?

Is it because Succor has a 15y radius, and since Aspected Helios is the same spell in different stances, they sacrificed the extra 5y because they didn't want the nocturnal shields to have 5y on Succor? Would that really have made such a big deal? 5y is a lot when you're trying to get your HoT on everyone, especially the tank.

I'd imagine it's because of Succor, yes. But the extra 5y would help so much. I've not attempted Savage on AST, but I've done some normal, and it's infuriating trying to use Aspected Helios to give myself some breathing room (with both HoTs on the tank and Time Dilation, say), and not being able to hit everyone.

[LycorisSelunis]

Question: Why does Aspected Helios have a 15y radius and Medica II has a 20y radius?

Is it because Succor has a 15y radius, and since Aspected Helios is the same spell in different stances, they sacrificed the extra 5y because they didn't want the nocturnal shields to have 5y on Succor? Would that really have made such a big deal? 5y is a lot when you're trying to get your HoT on everyone, especially the tank.

It may not even be just succor. Medica, indomitability, whispering dawn are ALL 15y too. Perhaps that extra 5y for whm is something that is supposed to be whm-special.

edit- I don't know the radius on assize, and the site I usually check has it listed as 0 which is wrong for sure.