Enjoy Summoner before it gets nerfed...

[RiceisNice]

Eh Wanderer's Minuet makes BRD's range potency nerf a moot mechanic.
.

Just to clarify. Bard and Machinists still have a damage penalty based on range even with WM/GB active. Their effective burst range is shorter than that of a summoner's, and typically is less safer since you have to extend out more. Bards also typically have a bit of windup since they need to prep DoTs for sidewinder, and machinists need to get a cleanshot ready

You took out the rest of my post and attacked the only part you wanted to attack. Lol
Healer LB works, Tank LB after seeing someone tri disaster'd works -- stops the whole burst from killing anyone.

This can easily be applied to any burst, ever. And we're talking about using an LB to counter something that's effectively on a 1 minute cooldown (unless you're saving someone with BH, which is totally justified)

[DxWings]

Just to clarify. Bard and Machinists still have a damage penalty based on range even with WM/GB active. Their effective burst range is shorter than that of a summoner's, and typically is less safer since you have to extend out more. Bards also typically have a bit of windup since they need to prep DoTs for sidewinder, and machinists need to get a cleanshot ready

I know that it still exists but the 30% boost in dmg dealt makes it a moot point no matter where you're trying to empyreal arrow from. I've bursted from as far as I can and still took people down no problem. So overextending is not really even needed when you're just a harrassment class thats eyeballing for a burst kill.

And thats the same as a SMN when you're trying to setup a burst. If SMN Tridisasters someone, and they Fester, but sees that Tridisaster was purified before fester hit and fester ended up doing 0 dmg, they would be smart to stop there. Now they're left with having to set it up the long way. Or if they managed to Bane people, then they'll have to switch target fast enough to Fester-Painflare-Deathflare them.
Setting up a burst goes for every class, people are just butthurt that SMNs can easily set it up with no effort.

This can easily be applied to any burst, ever. And we're talking about using an LB to counter something that's effectively on a 1 minute cooldown (unless you're saving someone with BH, which is totally justified)

Exactly! That goes for every burst there is, SMN is no exception. And you're not completely out of options that you have to rely on a LB. Second Wind, Purify, Recuperate, Wanderer's Paean, Cure I/II, adlos, succors, astro shields, stoneskin. You have sooo many options to counter a SMN's burst, or any burst in general. People just aren't willing to accept the fact that its a 1min "easy bake" combo.

[RiceisNice]

Exactly! That goes for every burst there is, SMN is no exception. And you're not completely out of options that you have to rely on a LB. Second Wind, Purify, Recuperate, Wanderer's Paean, Cure I/II, adlos, succors, astro shields, stoneskin. You have sooo many options to counter a SMN's burst, or any burst in general. People just aren't willing to accept the fact that its a 1min "easy bake" combo.

Its more on the fact how incredibly safe and reliable it is for SMN's burst compared to other classes, especially when it comes to bursting down a specific player.

Having it be shut down by LB/Heals isn't exclusive to just SMN burst, so I wouldn't really consider it to be a valid rebuttal. I mean honestly when you break it down, it's like you say, SMN's burst is a heck lot more reliable and accessible than what's available atm (second only to melee LB which I consider a true one shot in most circumstances)

The ranged penalty is applied after all is said and then. If I'm too close or attacking at max range, what could've been a 2.5k noncrit BtE is now doing less than quad digits, and that's far from being my only ability. If you wanted to burst something down as MCH or BRd, you pretty much have to sweet spot that range and it's a bit shorter than what SMN can reach since they have no range penalty. It's utterly infuriating when I get sniped by summoners when we're trying to run to the middle or cave spawns because of that goddamned center node that's uphill.

[Geologo]

Mmm to be honest I don't know if they will get an eavy nerf or not, becuse yes they has a "simple" kill rotation available any minute, but if they crap it or if your opponent do anything to prevent it, he wouldn't be able to kill you, because after using all the stacks, Dreadwyrm trance and Tridisaster (as said before) their DPS is pretty awful and their defense even worse.

Focalization at beginning of a fight o just one heal will make u survive and after u can ignore him (or kill him) for a minute.
On the other hand I feel that Battle high/Fever SMN are the problem (even if I think that there is no reason to not LB them, but people still don't do it), I'm a SCH so I have my points on mind, but in battle fever I critted 5900 with a Deathflare, and it is also an AoE.

I'm curious to see hot it will evolve, anyway up to now it is not impossible to survive to a SMN, neither so hard, you just have to be prepared to them, as they have to be prepared to use their burst rotation, this is pvp, you need to act different.

Ps. Also if a SMN does Fester on a un-dotted player he won't gain any Dreadwyrm stack, so no Dreadwyrm Trance and Deathflare for him, remember it

[kisada]

btw about the glass cannon stuff: lost in all this is that smn has zero native defensive cd's. compare that to blm that has an instant sleep, and manawall/manaward. a very high dps class with little to no defensive utility is a pretty typical way for developers to balance their classes. that's what smn is all about.

smn definitely has overpowered damage. but they are so lacking in virtually everything else that if you just key in on them a bit they tend to die quickly. if you misstep just once on smn you're dead, but if you play it well you're rewarded with the opportunity to maximize your damage potential. that's how glass cannons work. so it'd be prudent to take the overall job into account and not just the one flashy side.

[QCrimson]

smn definitely has overpowered damage. but they are so lacking in virtually everything else

No they're not. Contrary to the BLM they can run, sprint even, while dishing out close to 100% of their dmg potential. You don't seem to be realizing that. I'll take that over defensive CDs anyday in the current pvp environment. And you clearly have no idea what you're talking about if you think that random dots/banes amount to no impact in fronts. Sure you won't get many kills this way, but the dmg DOES matter and can eventually overwhelm the enemy healers.

if you misstep just once on smn you're dead

lol

[Slib]

if you misstep just once on smn you're dead, but if you play it well you're rewarded with the opportunity to maximize your damage potential. that's how glass cannons work. so it'd be prudent to take the overall job into account and not just the one flashy side.

That's how any class works in PvP. Everyone can die very fast... Honestly, I see tanks die the most because they run straight in head first and their cooldowns aren't enough to help them against 10+ people. I've been watching the leaderboards at the end of all my matches lately and I see a bunch of summoners up top with most kills, least deaths. Wonder why.

[Liselsia]

That's how any class works in PvP. Everyone can die very fast... Honestly, I see tanks die the most because they run straight in head first and their cooldowns aren't enough to help them against 10+ people. I've been watching the leaderboards at the end of all my matches lately and I see a bunch of summoners up top with most kills, least deaths. Wonder why.

Yeah basically this. I see a lot of people suggesting that Summoner is by far the most fragile job in the game. Its pretty much all hyperbole. Bard or Blackmage goes down just as quickly. It not a summoner problem, everyone dies quickly in pvp.

@Buff_Archer: Your not wrong but at same time its a bit disingenuous. You have skilled pvpers playing most jobs. I see DRG, NIN, BRD, WAR, ect all going 25-0 regularly in pvp. The thing is the top 15 dps are all Summoner typically. Sure the top 1 or 2 SUmmoner who pulling 300k+ DPS are pvp vets but majority arent yet consistently pulling 200k dps.

@Power Users: I think you guys need to chill a bit. Stalking this thread, angrily rebutting every critique made at summoner. Sharing your perspective is important but by no-lifing this thread all you end up doing is making yourself look defensive. Just let people express their opinions. Because at the end up the day thats all it is, subjective opinion. All equally is irrelevant, so dont get bothered so much.

[QCrimson]

Yeeeeah, not really. When you get TD>fester>pain flare>energy drain>death flare a recouperate aint exactly gonna cut it. Sooo many options

[DxWings]

Yeeeeah, not really. When you get TD>fester>pain flare>energy drain>death flare a recouperate aint exactly gonna cut it. Sooo many options

xD you really just like to QQ don't you?
Tridisaster (animation going out) then DoTs get applied and might I add that they're slow to apply? So, see the animation, Purify when you see the DoTs. Fester will do 0 damage.
Painflare does about 2k-3k dmg, Recouperate heals me about 3.xk health (9.x health x 30%).
Deathflare does about 4-5k, since I'm already back to 8k-ish, I'm not dead from deathflare and thats the end of their combo. Easy peasy