So, I hate to open up this can of worms again, but....

[Zari]

I would love to have a full team DPS parser. I'd accept personal parsers, but I think that will cause more problems than having a team one.

How would it cause problems, may I ask? A personal one could simply be used to evaluate and improve yourself

[FrejyaAthenes]

How would it cause problems, may I ask? A personal one could simply be used to evaluate and improve yourself

And a team parser could simply be used to evaluate and improve your team. See what I did there?

It's all well and good in theory, but theory and practice don't always match. Case in point:

Except when parties kick you for not sharing your parse numbers. Or when people lie about their numbers to avoid "harassment." Or when people just look at their parse numbers without any context or comparrison and just keep doing what they're doing thinking they're doing okay.

I'm just saying, if we're only gonna assume the worst for group parsers, we should do the same for personal ones. Only fair.

[Aezelas]

How would it cause problems, may I ask? A personal one could simply be used to evaluate and improve yourself

People would come up with party rules, like ask everyone to post their result in chat.
Low result: you're kicked.
Refuse to answer, because it's meant to be a "personal" parser: you're kicked.

[Fendred]

People would come up with party rules, like ask everyone to post their result in chat.
Low result: you're kicked.
Refuse to answer, because it's meant to be a "personal" parser: you're kicked.

For every bad team that uses it as an excuse to kick people there will be ten that will use it to help their friend get better. The development team can't copy paste the good of WoW without the bad. If they want challenging enrage mechanics, they need parsers.

[Kaurie]

How would it cause problems, may I ask? A personal one could simply be used to evaluate and improve yourself

Pretty much what Frejya said.

I can see parse numbers to be demanded to be told when a DPS check fails. Any negative behavior that would happen with the group parser would happen then too.

Conversely, the benefit of a group parser is someone can compare their DPS to others in neutral settings (i.e. Expert Roulette). Maybe you've been fairly happy with your damage output all along, and then get partnered up with someone else of the same job. Looks like you have better gear, you should own them right!? Wait, your DPS is only half of what they have. What?? That can't be?! OK, time to accept it and figure out what they're doing that you can emulate to improve.

With the personal parser only, this would never happen and the only time comparative data would come would be in the negative situations. Many positive comparisons would be lost.

AND if you had a personal parser only and did the ex roulette, if afterward you asked what the other DPS was doing - you'd inadvertently sound like an elitist. Even though all you want is to compare your numbers to see how you're doing.

[Malevicton]

I can see parse numbers to be demanded to be told when a DPS check fails.

Is that really such a bad thing?

[Blackheart]

Is that really such a bad thing?

not always, but in most cases, yes.

[Malevicton]

not always, but in most cases, yes.

in most cases of a dps check failing, it's bad to know how much dps everyone did? Really guys?

[Blackheart]

in most cases of a dps check failing, it's bad to know how much dps everyone did? Really guys?

well, it's abit of a double edged sword. Some people will ask, see where the problem is, and try to correct it, and for those instances having parsers would be great in the moment people are willing to help out and improve upon one another. Then you have those who think it's too much of a hassle and would rather kick/remove the problem rather then trying to communicate or help, and that is where parsers are a horrid idea.

[Malevicton]

well, it's abit of a double edged sword. Some people will ask, see where the problem is, and try to correct it, and for those instances having parsers would be great in the moment people are willing to help out and improve upon one another. Then you have those who think it's too much of a hassle and would rather kick/remove the problem rather then trying to communicate or help, and that is where parsers are a horrid idea.

The other option is ignorance. Also not sure if kicking people who can't meet dps checks is all that "horrid." Sure, it'd be better if people helped out, but by the time people are capped and doing endgame, there's a reasonable expectation for people to attempt to learn their role. If they can't do what they signed up to do, then helping them or kicking them are both viable options, one's just more polite. And it goes back to the double-standard of the other roles; if a healer isn't able to meet a heal check it's immediately obvious. Why is it okay for dps to get a pass if they wipe the group? If you have 3 dps at 800+ and one dps at 400 and fail a dps check, it's blamed on all 4 dps. That's not cool.

You erased the rest of the post.

It would be like me quoting you and only including "Bad thing". It just makes no sense without the rest of the post. Context is everything.

The post was pretty long to quote the whole thing, so I parsed for a thesis statement (heheh). Sorry to misrepresent you, though, it's true that I kinda did.