Crafting is dead

[Magistrella]

You're not listening. The expectation is that you BUY the ingredients that you can't craft yourself. The problem with single-craft prior to Heavensward wasn't that you needed other crafts and gatherers in order to craft the ingredients you need. The problem was that level 50 cross-class skills like Byergot's Blessing and Piece-by-Piece were REQUIRED to have any kind of decent shot at HQ. SE has removed the requirement to level crafts for their level 50 cross-class skills, That is all.

Obviously you never even tried to craft a 2 star HQ material

one word: wrong

[Xerius]

Here's a list of 56-60 recipes (you know, the stuff you make to level) that you can make with weaver + gatherers only
Crawler Silk

+ spending 45 minutes on a DoW/DoM farming crawlers because the drop rates from mobs are absolutely horrendous.

[LineageRazor]

Why was it needed?

Your definition of casual still isn't nearly casual enough. A casual crafter is one who feels exhausted after weeks spent leveling a single craft to 50. After getting all that done, they feel they've earned the right to craft anything their craft has to offer. Sure, they might have to get good gear before they can access the toughest things, but that's fine; it's no different than gearing up making you more powerful as a combat class. Anyone who considers leveling a single craft to 50 to be easy simply doesn't have a casual mindset.

Some here may feel that that kind of casual is simply too casual to be worth considering - but they're out there, they're plentiful, and SE wants them to not dismiss crafting as something not even worth trying because it's too hardcore.

Your BLM analogy falls short in that a BLM only cross-classes abilities that help a BLM. A BLM doesn't need tanking skills, and has only minor use for healing skills. If that if you really want to compare it to crafting classes, make it so that some of BLM's most important skills come from level 50 cross classes from ARC, GLD, CNJ, PGL, LNC, and ACN. It's not a matter of BLM performing a bit better by getting these cross-classes, it's a matter of a BLM completely failing at their role in high-level content unless they level six other classes to max level. Byregot's Blessing, and to a lesser extent CS2, PbP, and arguably a few others, were simply that important.

Obviously you never even tried to craft a 2 star HQ material

one word: wrong

Clearly, still a slave to Byergot's Blessing. Thankfully, we do have folks out there actually experimenting with new methods that don't rely on old expectations.

Even if the method used in that link doesn't turn out to be a usable solution, it shows that at least some crafters are still willing to experiment.

[Thrustie]

The person you quoted as not using BB is still using a multitude of other CC skills, including rumination, comfort zone, ingenuity 2 and muscle memory at a glance. Sorry but I think you've been sorely mislead if you believe 2 star crafts are accessible to those without a multitude of high level crafting classes. They are anything but casual unless your casual crafter was sitting on a full set of red scrip gear. If you think that was what SE was aiming for, then they failed miserably.

[andreopalomino]

The person you quoted as not using BB is still using a multitude of other CC skills, including rumination, comfort zone, ingenuity 2 and muscle memory at a glance. Sorry but I think you've been sorely mislead if you believe 2 star crafts are accessible to those without a multitude of high level crafting classes. They are anything but casual unless your casual crafter was sitting on a full set of red scrip gear. If you think that was what SE was aiming for, then they failed miserably.

Level 60 2 stars recipes are nothing but a dream if you don't have all cross class skills. Just take out all cross class skills on a class you're specialist and try to craft one 2star HQ item.

[scarebearz]

Your definition of casual still isn't nearly casual enough. A casual crafter is one who feels exhausted after weeks spent leveling a single craft to 50. After getting all that done, they feel they've earned the right to craft anything their craft has to offer. Sure, they might have to get good gear before they can access the toughest things, but that's fine; it's no different than gearing up making you more powerful as a combat class. Anyone who considers leveling a single craft to 50 to be easy simply doesn't have a casual mindset.

Some here may feel that that kind of casual is simply too casual to be worth considering - but they're out there, they're plentiful, and SE wants them to not dismiss crafting as something not even worth trying because it's too hardcore.

You are totally missing my point.

If someone is that casual are they going to grind 10 hours of scrip/favor gathering to craft 1 item?

If it takes a "casual" 1 week to get a single craft to 50, then whats so bad about it taking 2 months or more to have all at 50?

Clearly, still a slave to Byergot's Blessing. Thankfully, we do have folks out there actually experimenting with new methods that don't rely on old expectations.

Even if the method used in that link doesn't turn out to be a usable solution, it shows that at least some crafters are still willing to experiment.

This reply shows us how much you actually know about the crafts your talking about ;D

[Ksenia]

Level 60 2 stars recipes are nothing but a dream if you don't have all cross class skills. Just take out all cross class skills on a class you're specialist and try to craft one 2star HQ item.

I came to 2.00 with 3 characters. A 50 Weaver, Armorer 50 and Goldsmith 40. The Weaver went Omni but I kept the Armorer and Jeweler just Armor and Jeweler. The problem I see is, even if I took the Armorer and Jeweler to 60 and just that to 60 (I'd be doing it with lower NQ exper but I could actually do it)
The big problem I see is, I can do it but I require more crafts and more mats to do it. Everything about HeavensWard from 51 forward reduces Material availability. Suddenly the 'casual' becomes the hard core. For me to move my Exclusive Armorer forward is going to be 10X harder than moving my Omni forward.

[Ossom]

Crafting is far harder in 3.0 than 2.0. Trust me. Casuals aren't making it far at all.

Half of them are still struggling their way through blue scrips and they hear about red scrips and are just like "No thanks".

It is too hard for a casual player, at least on my server to make much ground. Now, Gatherers, man they are the golden child right now. Having a gatherer or 2 at Lv60 is the most profitable thing you could do. But leveling a crafter without having a gatherer and other crafters is just too hard and too expensive.

Say a casual has 500k. If it cost them 10k to do 1 Blue Scrip craft and get 150k exp, then at lv 58 when they need like 3M exp, they are gonna have to do 20 crafts. That's 200k Right there, now they can gather that instead if they have the gatherer's, but if they don't well then they are screwed.

Prices are not gonna go down anytime soon, they hit the base level. Previously when you got Lv50 on a class, you really didn't need to worry too much about making the Lv40 and Lv30 crafts and could focus on 1 and 2 star unhindered. But that is not the case now, now you have every from lv50 to 60 competing for the same mats, every week, and a lot of them. Gatherer's keeping their mats instead of unloading them, and gatherer's not having the time to collect the less worthwhile mats since there is always a node up that needs to be mined.

[andreopalomino]

I came to 2.00 with 3 characters. A 50 Weaver, Armorer 50 and Goldsmith 40. The Weaver went Omni but I kept the Armorer and Jeweler just Armor and Jeweler. The problem I see is, even if I took the Armorer and Jeweler to 60 and just that to 60 (I'd be doing it with lower NQ exper but I could actually do it)
The big problem I see is, I can do it but I require more crafts and more mats to do it. Everything about HeavensWard from 51 forward reduces Material availability. Suddenly the 'casual' becomes the hard core. For me to move my Exclusive Armorer forward is going to be 10X harder than moving my Omni forward.

I agree, leveling doing NQ items is crazy expensive. But what I'm saying is, unless you covered on red scrip gear, you can't think about crafting 2stars without all cross class skills. One crafter level 60, even a specialist, can't hope to craft anything 2stars unless he's so overgeared that the gear he's crafting is not important for him anymore.

[Sibyll]

snip

I was happy to hear that specialization would remove the necessity to have every class capped, even though I'd planned to cap them all anyways. The problem is it doesn't.

Byregot's Brow is only usable on Good/Excellent procs, hits for less than Blessing for 6+ IQ stacks, and has a 20% lower success rate than Blessing. Comfort Zone, Careful Synthesis II, and Steady Hand II are still too good not to take. Hasty Touch is still needed because the reduced good procs means you can't rely on Precise Touch for cheap IQ building.

The Whistle system and Heart of the Crafter are an interesting concept that is defeated by the CP cost, RNG factor and limited duration of HotC. If HotC was 45 CP and lasted the entire synth, 45 CP and guaranteed X good procs during its duration, or zero CP (still a delineation) and remained as is this would be different. However, dumping 36 CP on WWYW and another 45 CP on HotC to possibly get some whistle stacks removed is asinine to say the least. Using it by itself to proc goods for precise touches implies that you are swimming in CP because you are by no means guaranteed to get a proc.

Please explain to me exactly how anything the expansion added removed/reduced the necessity of cross class skills for end game crafting. I'd be interested to see your argument.

Also I leveled my LTW and WVR for 15-50 just from maxing Ixali rep. Turning in 5 HQ level appropriate leves is a level. HQ GC turn ins is half a level (nearly a full level if it's starred). This is as casual as crafting could get unless you are expecting the game to level it for you.