Crafting is dead

[LineageRazor]

Why was it needed?

Your definition of casual still isn't nearly casual enough. A casual crafter is one who feels exhausted after weeks spent leveling a single craft to 50. After getting all that done, they feel they've earned the right to craft anything their craft has to offer. Sure, they might have to get good gear before they can access the toughest things, but that's fine; it's no different than gearing up making you more powerful as a combat class. Anyone who considers leveling a single craft to 50 to be easy simply doesn't have a casual mindset.

Some here may feel that that kind of casual is simply too casual to be worth considering - but they're out there, they're plentiful, and SE wants them to not dismiss crafting as something not even worth trying because it's too hardcore.

Your BLM analogy falls short in that a BLM only cross-classes abilities that help a BLM. A BLM doesn't need tanking skills, and has only minor use for healing skills. If that if you really want to compare it to crafting classes, make it so that some of BLM's most important skills come from level 50 cross classes from ARC, GLD, CNJ, PGL, LNC, and ACN. It's not a matter of BLM performing a bit better by getting these cross-classes, it's a matter of a BLM completely failing at their role in high-level content unless they level six other classes to max level. Byregot's Blessing, and to a lesser extent CS2, PbP, and arguably a few others, were simply that important.

Obviously you never even tried to craft a 2 star HQ material

one word: wrong

Clearly, still a slave to Byergot's Blessing. Thankfully, we do have folks out there actually experimenting with new methods that don't rely on old expectations.

Even if the method used in that link doesn't turn out to be a usable solution, it shows that at least some crafters are still willing to experiment.

[Thrustie]

The person you quoted as not using BB is still using a multitude of other CC skills, including rumination, comfort zone, ingenuity 2 and muscle memory at a glance. Sorry but I think you've been sorely mislead if you believe 2 star crafts are accessible to those without a multitude of high level crafting classes. They are anything but casual unless your casual crafter was sitting on a full set of red scrip gear. If you think that was what SE was aiming for, then they failed miserably.

[andreopalomino]

The person you quoted as not using BB is still using a multitude of other CC skills, including rumination, comfort zone, ingenuity 2 and muscle memory at a glance. Sorry but I think you've been sorely mislead if you believe 2 star crafts are accessible to those without a multitude of high level crafting classes. They are anything but casual unless your casual crafter was sitting on a full set of red scrip gear. If you think that was what SE was aiming for, then they failed miserably.

Level 60 2 stars recipes are nothing but a dream if you don't have all cross class skills. Just take out all cross class skills on a class you're specialist and try to craft one 2star HQ item.

[Ksenia]

Level 60 2 stars recipes are nothing but a dream if you don't have all cross class skills. Just take out all cross class skills on a class you're specialist and try to craft one 2star HQ item.

I came to 2.00 with 3 characters. A 50 Weaver, Armorer 50 and Goldsmith 40. The Weaver went Omni but I kept the Armorer and Jeweler just Armor and Jeweler. The problem I see is, even if I took the Armorer and Jeweler to 60 and just that to 60 (I'd be doing it with lower NQ exper but I could actually do it)
The big problem I see is, I can do it but I require more crafts and more mats to do it. Everything about HeavensWard from 51 forward reduces Material availability. Suddenly the 'casual' becomes the hard core. For me to move my Exclusive Armorer forward is going to be 10X harder than moving my Omni forward.

[andreopalomino]

I came to 2.00 with 3 characters. A 50 Weaver, Armorer 50 and Goldsmith 40. The Weaver went Omni but I kept the Armorer and Jeweler just Armor and Jeweler. The problem I see is, even if I took the Armorer and Jeweler to 60 and just that to 60 (I'd be doing it with lower NQ exper but I could actually do it)
The big problem I see is, I can do it but I require more crafts and more mats to do it. Everything about HeavensWard from 51 forward reduces Material availability. Suddenly the 'casual' becomes the hard core. For me to move my Exclusive Armorer forward is going to be 10X harder than moving my Omni forward.

I agree, leveling doing NQ items is crazy expensive. But what I'm saying is, unless you covered on red scrip gear, you can't think about crafting 2stars without all cross class skills. One crafter level 60, even a specialist, can't hope to craft anything 2stars unless he's so overgeared that the gear he's crafting is not important for him anymore.

[Sibyll]

snip

I was happy to hear that specialization would remove the necessity to have every class capped, even though I'd planned to cap them all anyways. The problem is it doesn't.

Byregot's Brow is only usable on Good/Excellent procs, hits for less than Blessing for 6+ IQ stacks, and has a 20% lower success rate than Blessing. Comfort Zone, Careful Synthesis II, and Steady Hand II are still too good not to take. Hasty Touch is still needed because the reduced good procs means you can't rely on Precise Touch for cheap IQ building.

The Whistle system and Heart of the Crafter are an interesting concept that is defeated by the CP cost, RNG factor and limited duration of HotC. If HotC was 45 CP and lasted the entire synth, 45 CP and guaranteed X good procs during its duration, or zero CP (still a delineation) and remained as is this would be different. However, dumping 36 CP on WWYW and another 45 CP on HotC to possibly get some whistle stacks removed is asinine to say the least. Using it by itself to proc goods for precise touches implies that you are swimming in CP because you are by no means guaranteed to get a proc.

Please explain to me exactly how anything the expansion added removed/reduced the necessity of cross class skills for end game crafting. I'd be interested to see your argument.

Also I leveled my LTW and WVR for 15-50 just from maxing Ixali rep. Turning in 5 HQ level appropriate leves is a level. HQ GC turn ins is half a level (nearly a full level if it's starred). This is as casual as crafting could get unless you are expecting the game to level it for you.

[LineageRazor]

Please explain to me exactly how anything the expansion added removed/reduced the necessity of cross class skills for end game crafting. I'd be interested to see your argument.

If I had the answers, I'd gladly share them. I don't, but that doesn't mean there are no answers to be had.

This isn't the first time the crafting paradigm has shifted. Before 3- and 4-star crafts (and especially the Mastercraft II books), skills like Reclaim and Piece-by-piece were all but pointless. When it became obvious that the old methods for crafting just weren't going to cut it on the new recipes, that's when tactics like fishing for Good or Excellent procs started to pop up. Folks who were used to being able to gear up enough to macro craft everything under the sun finally started having to pay attention to what they were doing, gauging probabilities to get acceptable results, and working with the knowledge that there was no 100% foolproof way too succeed on many synths.

I feel like folks are being too hasty in assuming that SE has flat-out dropped the ball with their promise of making solo-crafting viable. Pretty near everyone that posts in the crafting forums is ALREADY an omnicrafter. Why? Because damn near everyone that comes to the forums asking advice on how to craft is immediately told, "Level everything to 50. It's the only way." Some may rise to the challenge, but I'm betting a whole lot more get discouraged and turn away. Those of us that remain, we don't NEED to rely on Byregot's Brow or the specialist abilities because we already have all these cross-class bells and whistles.

I'm hopeful that an upcoming crop of new solo-craft crafters will appear that aren't scared off by the old guard's moaning and weeping, who are forced to rely on the new skills. None of us here have put more than a token effort into crafting like a solo-crafter would need to, because it's wasteful and unnecessary. The question isn't whether solo-crafting is the best way - that's almost certainly false - the question is whether it's a VIABLE way. In searching for a viable way, these solo-crafters may come up with techniques that surprise the rest of us.

Edit: And for the record, since many folks seem to be misinterpreting what I mean by all this, I'm NOT implying by any means that level 60 2-star crafting materials are casual-oriented. That is a seperate discussion. My only concern is whether or not casual crafters can effectively craft using those materials, not whether or not obtaining those materials is a casual activity.

[scarebearz]

Your definition of casual still isn't nearly casual enough. A casual crafter is one who feels exhausted after weeks spent leveling a single craft to 50. After getting all that done, they feel they've earned the right to craft anything their craft has to offer. Sure, they might have to get good gear before they can access the toughest things, but that's fine; it's no different than gearing up making you more powerful as a combat class. Anyone who considers leveling a single craft to 50 to be easy simply doesn't have a casual mindset.

Some here may feel that that kind of casual is simply too casual to be worth considering - but they're out there, they're plentiful, and SE wants them to not dismiss crafting as something not even worth trying because it's too hardcore.

You are totally missing my point.

If someone is that casual are they going to grind 10 hours of scrip/favor gathering to craft 1 item?

If it takes a "casual" 1 week to get a single craft to 50, then whats so bad about it taking 2 months or more to have all at 50?

Clearly, still a slave to Byergot's Blessing. Thankfully, we do have folks out there actually experimenting with new methods that don't rely on old expectations.

Even if the method used in that link doesn't turn out to be a usable solution, it shows that at least some crafters are still willing to experiment.

This reply shows us how much you actually know about the crafts your talking about ;D

[seorin]

Some here may feel that that kind of casual is simply too casual to be worth considering - but they're out there, they're plentiful, and SE wants them to not dismiss crafting as something not even worth trying because it's too hardcore.

Even many hardcore omnicrafters are looking at this system and dismissing it as not even worth trying because it's too hardcore. Gearing up a single crafter is more time consuming and expensive than leveling all of them to 60. SE missed their mark, to say the least.

[kenventa]

Even many hardcore omnicrafters are looking at this system and dismissing it as not even worth trying because it's too hardcore. Gearing up a single crafter is more time consuming and expensive than leveling all of them to 60. SE missed their mark, to say the least.

I don't mind the a system of being 'too hardcore' as long as the reward matches the difficulty.

Getting mastercraft book II is difficult (almost punched my monitor) and expensive for majority of the crafters but didn't mind burning the gil because the we know the new recipe it will offer will be worth.

Sealant gears is difficult. Even with full artisan gear back then no one can really guarantee 100% HQ. We learned how frustrating it is to NQ a 98% quality and how 90% reclaim is totally BS. But with an understanding of the risks and how to manage it, we continued crafting since there is an opportunity to earn gil.

Gee, it was fun back then.