Crafting is dead

[LineageRazor]

You're absolutely right, why would anyone assume that when previously you could craft the high level stuff with just the current class (or gathered from maps), that all of a sudden even leveling crafts would require a 50+ armorer, goldsmith, and alchemist to make a single piece of weaver level 59 gear for a level 58 DoM piece. It's always been that way. *rolls eyes*

You're not listening. The expectation is that you BUY the ingredients that you can't craft yourself. The problem with single-craft prior to Heavensward wasn't that you needed other crafts and gatherers in order to craft the ingredients you need. The problem was that level 50 cross-class skills like Byergot's Blessing and Piece-by-Piece were REQUIRED to have any kind of decent shot at HQ. SE has removed the requirement to level crafts for their level 50 cross-class skills, That is all.

Prior to Heavensward, how many level 50 1- and 2-star Weaver crafts could you create with only Weaver at 50? ALL OF THEM. How about 3-star crafts? You can still make them all, but HQing without Byergot's, Comfort Zone, Piece-by-Piece was a nightmare. 4-star? Good luck even getting the book to unlock them. That was what SE set out to fix.

People have this mindset that if they can't obtain/create all the ingredients themselves, then they can't craft at all. That's stupid. We're spoiled in this game, because crafts are easy to level and there are no restrictions on how many classes you can max out. Not all MMOs work that way; instead, you're expected to buy from or trade with other crafters to get the ingredients you can't produce yourself.

SE STILL hasn't gone that far. We're still allowed to max every craft (excluding specialist skills, which most agree are a waste of time anyway), so we continue to be spoiled. A sufficiently determined crafter/gatherer can still produce every ingredient they need.

What SE has done was make crafting less daunting to casual players, by providing alternatives for some of the most important level 50 cross-class skills. The alternatives provided aren't necessarily as good, but they're still miles beyond what crafters had available to them before. Byregot's Brow may be terrible compared to Byregot's Blessing, but compared to Advanced Touch? It's miraculous.

The fact that you CAN'T buy ingredients for level 60 2-star crafts due to scarcity is a problem - but it is a seperate, unrelated problem. Even omnicrafters are having problems getting all of the ingredients; it's a matter of them being too much of a grind to obtain. If you COULD obtain them, though, it's possible for a solo crafter (perhaps with a sprinkling of level 15 cross-class skills) to HQ even the new level 60 2-star crafts at a decent rate without having to take any other craft to 50, let alone to 60. That was the promise SE meant to deliver on.

[scarebearz]

What SE has done was make crafting less daunting to casual players, by providing alternatives for some of the most important level 50 cross-class skills.

Why was it needed?

For non-casual crafters it takes 7 days to get all crafts to 50 assuming you have capped leve allowances.

It is/was hardly difficult and even a casual crafter could get them all 50 pretty fast.

I'm a BLM main and I'm too lazy to level a tank/heal class to 60, does this mean I should be given tanking/healing skills that are "almost as good as" the true lvl 60 ones?

What's crazy is people siding with SE over Favor's/scrips saying they are "to help casuals", but also defending the specalist system because getting lvl50 cross class skills "is too much for casuals". If any "casual" can gind out their favors/scrips, they certainly could have got all their crafts to lvl50 quickly!

[Magistrella]

You're not listening. The expectation is that you BUY the ingredients that you can't craft yourself. The problem with single-craft prior to Heavensward wasn't that you needed other crafts and gatherers in order to craft the ingredients you need. The problem was that level 50 cross-class skills like Byergot's Blessing and Piece-by-Piece were REQUIRED to have any kind of decent shot at HQ. SE has removed the requirement to level crafts for their level 50 cross-class skills, That is all.

Obviously you never even tried to craft a 2 star HQ material

one word: wrong

[LineageRazor]

Why was it needed?

Your definition of casual still isn't nearly casual enough. A casual crafter is one who feels exhausted after weeks spent leveling a single craft to 50. After getting all that done, they feel they've earned the right to craft anything their craft has to offer. Sure, they might have to get good gear before they can access the toughest things, but that's fine; it's no different than gearing up making you more powerful as a combat class. Anyone who considers leveling a single craft to 50 to be easy simply doesn't have a casual mindset.

Some here may feel that that kind of casual is simply too casual to be worth considering - but they're out there, they're plentiful, and SE wants them to not dismiss crafting as something not even worth trying because it's too hardcore.

Your BLM analogy falls short in that a BLM only cross-classes abilities that help a BLM. A BLM doesn't need tanking skills, and has only minor use for healing skills. If that if you really want to compare it to crafting classes, make it so that some of BLM's most important skills come from level 50 cross classes from ARC, GLD, CNJ, PGL, LNC, and ACN. It's not a matter of BLM performing a bit better by getting these cross-classes, it's a matter of a BLM completely failing at their role in high-level content unless they level six other classes to max level. Byregot's Blessing, and to a lesser extent CS2, PbP, and arguably a few others, were simply that important.

Obviously you never even tried to craft a 2 star HQ material

one word: wrong

Clearly, still a slave to Byergot's Blessing. Thankfully, we do have folks out there actually experimenting with new methods that don't rely on old expectations.

Even if the method used in that link doesn't turn out to be a usable solution, it shows that at least some crafters are still willing to experiment.

[Thrustie]

The person you quoted as not using BB is still using a multitude of other CC skills, including rumination, comfort zone, ingenuity 2 and muscle memory at a glance. Sorry but I think you've been sorely mislead if you believe 2 star crafts are accessible to those without a multitude of high level crafting classes. They are anything but casual unless your casual crafter was sitting on a full set of red scrip gear. If you think that was what SE was aiming for, then they failed miserably.

[andreopalomino]

The person you quoted as not using BB is still using a multitude of other CC skills, including rumination, comfort zone, ingenuity 2 and muscle memory at a glance. Sorry but I think you've been sorely mislead if you believe 2 star crafts are accessible to those without a multitude of high level crafting classes. They are anything but casual unless your casual crafter was sitting on a full set of red scrip gear. If you think that was what SE was aiming for, then they failed miserably.

Level 60 2 stars recipes are nothing but a dream if you don't have all cross class skills. Just take out all cross class skills on a class you're specialist and try to craft one 2star HQ item.

[Ksenia]

Level 60 2 stars recipes are nothing but a dream if you don't have all cross class skills. Just take out all cross class skills on a class you're specialist and try to craft one 2star HQ item.

I came to 2.00 with 3 characters. A 50 Weaver, Armorer 50 and Goldsmith 40. The Weaver went Omni but I kept the Armorer and Jeweler just Armor and Jeweler. The problem I see is, even if I took the Armorer and Jeweler to 60 and just that to 60 (I'd be doing it with lower NQ exper but I could actually do it)
The big problem I see is, I can do it but I require more crafts and more mats to do it. Everything about HeavensWard from 51 forward reduces Material availability. Suddenly the 'casual' becomes the hard core. For me to move my Exclusive Armorer forward is going to be 10X harder than moving my Omni forward.

[andreopalomino]

I came to 2.00 with 3 characters. A 50 Weaver, Armorer 50 and Goldsmith 40. The Weaver went Omni but I kept the Armorer and Jeweler just Armor and Jeweler. The problem I see is, even if I took the Armorer and Jeweler to 60 and just that to 60 (I'd be doing it with lower NQ exper but I could actually do it)
The big problem I see is, I can do it but I require more crafts and more mats to do it. Everything about HeavensWard from 51 forward reduces Material availability. Suddenly the 'casual' becomes the hard core. For me to move my Exclusive Armorer forward is going to be 10X harder than moving my Omni forward.

I agree, leveling doing NQ items is crazy expensive. But what I'm saying is, unless you covered on red scrip gear, you can't think about crafting 2stars without all cross class skills. One crafter level 60, even a specialist, can't hope to craft anything 2stars unless he's so overgeared that the gear he's crafting is not important for him anymore.

[scarebearz]

Your definition of casual still isn't nearly casual enough. A casual crafter is one who feels exhausted after weeks spent leveling a single craft to 50. After getting all that done, they feel they've earned the right to craft anything their craft has to offer. Sure, they might have to get good gear before they can access the toughest things, but that's fine; it's no different than gearing up making you more powerful as a combat class. Anyone who considers leveling a single craft to 50 to be easy simply doesn't have a casual mindset.

Some here may feel that that kind of casual is simply too casual to be worth considering - but they're out there, they're plentiful, and SE wants them to not dismiss crafting as something not even worth trying because it's too hardcore.

You are totally missing my point.

If someone is that casual are they going to grind 10 hours of scrip/favor gathering to craft 1 item?

If it takes a "casual" 1 week to get a single craft to 50, then whats so bad about it taking 2 months or more to have all at 50?

Clearly, still a slave to Byergot's Blessing. Thankfully, we do have folks out there actually experimenting with new methods that don't rely on old expectations.

Even if the method used in that link doesn't turn out to be a usable solution, it shows that at least some crafters are still willing to experiment.

This reply shows us how much you actually know about the crafts your talking about ;D

[seorin]

Some here may feel that that kind of casual is simply too casual to be worth considering - but they're out there, they're plentiful, and SE wants them to not dismiss crafting as something not even worth trying because it's too hardcore.

Even many hardcore omnicrafters are looking at this system and dismissing it as not even worth trying because it's too hardcore. Gearing up a single crafter is more time consuming and expensive than leveling all of them to 60. SE missed their mark, to say the least.