Crafting is dead

[LineageRazor]

Yes, the "no more need to omnicraft" thing was never a promise that crafts will no longer depend on other crafts' products. All that was ever implied was that new skills would be added that would eliminate the necessity of obtaining level 50 cross-class skills. SE has delivered on that, with substitute finisher skills like Byregot's Brow for Byregot's Blessing, and progression skills like Name/Brand and the MMs.

Anyone who actually thought that crafts would no longer depend on high level gathered or crafted materials from other classes was fooling themselves. As it currently stands, SE has delivered on their promise: it is no longer required to level every class in order to craft high-level recipes effectively. The drawback is exactly the same thing that non-crafters have had to deal with since day one: if you don't craft, you have to pay others to make the things you want. If you craft just one craft, then you have to pay other crafters to make the things you want. This is as it should be.

[Hanmerreborn]

Anyone who actually thought that crafts would no longer depend on high level gathered or crafted materials from other classes was fooling themselves. As it currently stands, SE has delivered on their promise: it is no longer required to level every class in order to craft high-level recipes effectively. The drawback is exactly the same thing that non-crafters have had to deal with since day one: if you don't craft, you have to pay others to make the things you want. If you craft just one craft, then you have to pay other crafters to make the things you want. This is as it should be.

That's the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.

Here are ONLY 1 star recipes that you can make with JUST weaver (and appropriately leveled gatherers).

Imperial Operative Dalmatica
Militia Tights
Carpenter's Hood
Weaver's Gibus

With only a level 25 alchemist requirement (natron) with low level mining mats you can make pretty much every other 1 star item because of the requirement for undyed felt, which can also just be gathered from maps (also the few recipes requiring darksteel and rose gold nuggets can also just be crafted this way).

Here's a list of 56-60 recipes (you know, the stuff you make to level) that you can make with weaver + gatherers only
Crawler Silk

You're absolutely right, why would anyone assume that when previously you could craft the high level stuff with just the current class (or gathered from maps), that all of a sudden even leveling crafts would require a 50+ armorer, goldsmith, and alchemist to make a single piece of weaver level 59 gear for a level 58 DoM piece. It's always been that way. *rolls eyes*

[LineageRazor]

You're absolutely right, why would anyone assume that when previously you could craft the high level stuff with just the current class (or gathered from maps), that all of a sudden even leveling crafts would require a 50+ armorer, goldsmith, and alchemist to make a single piece of weaver level 59 gear for a level 58 DoM piece. It's always been that way. *rolls eyes*

You're not listening. The expectation is that you BUY the ingredients that you can't craft yourself. The problem with single-craft prior to Heavensward wasn't that you needed other crafts and gatherers in order to craft the ingredients you need. The problem was that level 50 cross-class skills like Byergot's Blessing and Piece-by-Piece were REQUIRED to have any kind of decent shot at HQ. SE has removed the requirement to level crafts for their level 50 cross-class skills, That is all.

Prior to Heavensward, how many level 50 1- and 2-star Weaver crafts could you create with only Weaver at 50? ALL OF THEM. How about 3-star crafts? You can still make them all, but HQing without Byergot's, Comfort Zone, Piece-by-Piece was a nightmare. 4-star? Good luck even getting the book to unlock them. That was what SE set out to fix.

People have this mindset that if they can't obtain/create all the ingredients themselves, then they can't craft at all. That's stupid. We're spoiled in this game, because crafts are easy to level and there are no restrictions on how many classes you can max out. Not all MMOs work that way; instead, you're expected to buy from or trade with other crafters to get the ingredients you can't produce yourself.

SE STILL hasn't gone that far. We're still allowed to max every craft (excluding specialist skills, which most agree are a waste of time anyway), so we continue to be spoiled. A sufficiently determined crafter/gatherer can still produce every ingredient they need.

What SE has done was make crafting less daunting to casual players, by providing alternatives for some of the most important level 50 cross-class skills. The alternatives provided aren't necessarily as good, but they're still miles beyond what crafters had available to them before. Byregot's Brow may be terrible compared to Byregot's Blessing, but compared to Advanced Touch? It's miraculous.

The fact that you CAN'T buy ingredients for level 60 2-star crafts due to scarcity is a problem - but it is a seperate, unrelated problem. Even omnicrafters are having problems getting all of the ingredients; it's a matter of them being too much of a grind to obtain. If you COULD obtain them, though, it's possible for a solo crafter (perhaps with a sprinkling of level 15 cross-class skills) to HQ even the new level 60 2-star crafts at a decent rate without having to take any other craft to 50, let alone to 60. That was the promise SE meant to deliver on.

[scarebearz]

What SE has done was make crafting less daunting to casual players, by providing alternatives for some of the most important level 50 cross-class skills.

Why was it needed?

For non-casual crafters it takes 7 days to get all crafts to 50 assuming you have capped leve allowances.

It is/was hardly difficult and even a casual crafter could get them all 50 pretty fast.

I'm a BLM main and I'm too lazy to level a tank/heal class to 60, does this mean I should be given tanking/healing skills that are "almost as good as" the true lvl 60 ones?

What's crazy is people siding with SE over Favor's/scrips saying they are "to help casuals", but also defending the specalist system because getting lvl50 cross class skills "is too much for casuals". If any "casual" can gind out their favors/scrips, they certainly could have got all their crafts to lvl50 quickly!

[Magistrella]

You're not listening. The expectation is that you BUY the ingredients that you can't craft yourself. The problem with single-craft prior to Heavensward wasn't that you needed other crafts and gatherers in order to craft the ingredients you need. The problem was that level 50 cross-class skills like Byergot's Blessing and Piece-by-Piece were REQUIRED to have any kind of decent shot at HQ. SE has removed the requirement to level crafts for their level 50 cross-class skills, That is all.

Obviously you never even tried to craft a 2 star HQ material

one word: wrong

[LineageRazor]

Why was it needed?

Your definition of casual still isn't nearly casual enough. A casual crafter is one who feels exhausted after weeks spent leveling a single craft to 50. After getting all that done, they feel they've earned the right to craft anything their craft has to offer. Sure, they might have to get good gear before they can access the toughest things, but that's fine; it's no different than gearing up making you more powerful as a combat class. Anyone who considers leveling a single craft to 50 to be easy simply doesn't have a casual mindset.

Some here may feel that that kind of casual is simply too casual to be worth considering - but they're out there, they're plentiful, and SE wants them to not dismiss crafting as something not even worth trying because it's too hardcore.

Your BLM analogy falls short in that a BLM only cross-classes abilities that help a BLM. A BLM doesn't need tanking skills, and has only minor use for healing skills. If that if you really want to compare it to crafting classes, make it so that some of BLM's most important skills come from level 50 cross classes from ARC, GLD, CNJ, PGL, LNC, and ACN. It's not a matter of BLM performing a bit better by getting these cross-classes, it's a matter of a BLM completely failing at their role in high-level content unless they level six other classes to max level. Byregot's Blessing, and to a lesser extent CS2, PbP, and arguably a few others, were simply that important.

Obviously you never even tried to craft a 2 star HQ material

one word: wrong

Clearly, still a slave to Byergot's Blessing. Thankfully, we do have folks out there actually experimenting with new methods that don't rely on old expectations.

Even if the method used in that link doesn't turn out to be a usable solution, it shows that at least some crafters are still willing to experiment.

[Xerius]

Here's a list of 56-60 recipes (you know, the stuff you make to level) that you can make with weaver + gatherers only
Crawler Silk

+ spending 45 minutes on a DoW/DoM farming crawlers because the drop rates from mobs are absolutely horrendous.

[Magistrella]

snip

Erm... LOL

Sorry, but Brow is a really shitty substitue for Blessing. You still need most classes at 50 or you're fucked on "harder" crafts.

And to the argument that classes were needed before and now:
Of course they were needed before and of course they are needed now - but the added complexity and stupid amount of time you need to actually get something done now is ridiculously higher then in 2.x at any point. And that is the main problem - the problem is not *cry cry* ITS TOO HARD TO GET !!11eleven! *cry cry* but: It takes way too much effort (read: time invested) to get something that is in the end utterly useless or: 80+ Favor items (5 hours or running brainless in circles if you're lucky) for one piece of armor equip for ONE of the EIGHT crafting classes

And NO - you can NOT just walk to the MB and buy the materials for it. Not even one has the amount up on it even if you bought then for 1m+ per item to get just one piece of equip crafted

After 2 F*kupo*ing weeks since red scrip were added

go figure

[Nylisa]

I'm cooperating with 3 other crafters (partly gatherer too) and we're totally fine with the system so far.. Just waiting for more recipes to see where we're headed

as much as i like to agree with you dont think even cooperating makes this any better , i spent 200 red scrips on favors just today and managed to craft only 1 griffin leather that was NQ at 96% , imagine the time and effort a team should put for just one set of gear.let alone gearing up 2 or more people , this makes me not even think about being an omnicrafter i be happy to just make one set of gear in next 10-12 week , which seem not possible by the looks of it!

[andreopalomino]

If SE's objective was to suck away fun from crafting, they deserve a game award.
Crafting in this game was always very demanding, but I always went through whatever SE decided throw at me (at us), but since they released the red scrip system, I've been lost, cause I can't actually craft; everything you need to craft is gated behind the red scrips, and people need their scrips to get better gear, so you have to chose between mats or gear... but you can barely craft the new recipes without the new gear.
I crafted one Adamantite Ingot HQ. That's what I could craft since the new recipes were released. Took me a week to gather the ingredients... and now I have to repeat the farming for weeks till I can craft all the mats, so I can finally try to craft a weapon (which can end up being NQ and, stats wise, useless).
So, yeah, it's kinda depressing. Does SE actually look at this forum? Cause for what I read I'm not the only person that hated these changes...