Name of [element] skills are still kind of bad

[Outfoxed]

Yes I know what they do.

100+200(1-%progress)

The issue is this:

For 1 use of Name of [element]: It costs 21CP for 300% efficiency. Notably it also sucks a ton because it costs you the opportunity to use the 54GSM skill or the 54CUL skill both of which provide very strong openers at a fraction of the cost. The GSM one is arguably a superior cross class skill even if the CP costs were the same. As a 1move finisher, it's also somewhat unreliable because it gives you a 10% chance to fail your craft if used on the last step. Most people are not looking for a 90% craft finisher when they can likely just HQ it without this skill.


For 2 uses of Name of [element]: It's very likely that SHII + RS*2 will give you the same progress with 10% less success rate but for the equivalent of 17CP less. If we compare the cost of of the CP/dur with manipulation/masters mend we can say that 10DUR is worth ~30CP. Since it's only a 10% chance to fail more, it's worth approximately 3CP for that 10 difference yet the craft is charging you 8.5CP more per use of brand.

For 3 uses of Name of [element]: It's just plain worse than SHII +RS*3.

It's also not even good as a pure opener because the GSM one at the moment seems to edge out all competition.

[Imdesyda]

They aren't useless, though they're usefulness goes down once you get to 1* crafts. Not really here to debate the finer points but I did want to point out a small flaw in your math. SHII (25 CP) + Rapid 2x costs 25 CP. Using the Name of Whatever buff (15 CP)+ 2x Brand (6 CP/ea) is only 27 CP. The difference is 2 CP not 17 as stated. In case you weren't aware, you only use Name of Whatever once and it applies a buff that lasts for 5 steps.

Edit: I also failed at math.

[Sibyll]

It's been a while since I made the Primal weapons, but if I recall items with the "Aspect: Element" characteristic general impose a rather large progress penalty. I think the i95 weapons on my 4* Blacksmith were one of the hardest crafts to HQ, aside from the Balanced Darksteel Hooks at the time.

My point is, it's hard to say that SH2+RS*2 would be as good without seeing some numbers on a synth that is aspected, which you may or may not have already done.

Yes I know what they do.

100+200(1-%progress).

If I might ask, the Name skill increases the base efficiency of brand by 200%(1-%progress)... so that at 0 progress it would have a base of 300%? If that's correct then that means Brand with Name active would be a 600% progress opener for recipes Aspected to that element because Brand get x2 efficiency when used on Aspected recipes.

[Outfoxed]

They aren't useless, though they're usefulness goes down once you get to 1* crafts. Not really here to debate the finer points but I did want to point out a small flaw in your math. SHII (25 CP) + Rapid 2x costs 25 CP. Using the Name of Whatever buff (15 CP)+ 2x Brand (6 CP/ea) is only 27 CP. The difference is 2 CP not 17 as stated. In case you weren't aware, you only use Name of Whatever once and it applies a buff that lasts for 5 steps.

Edit: I also failed at math.

SHII = 25 CP
SHII = 5 stacks
1stack of SHII = 5CP

The other 3 stacks of SHII don't magically disappear if you use RS. You can very well HT 3x after RS'ing

[Outfoxed]

It's been a while since I made the Primal weapons, but if I recall items with the "Aspect: Element" characteristic general impose a rather large progress penalty. I think the i95 weapons on my 4* Blacksmith were one of the hardest crafts to HQ, aside from the Balanced Darksteel Hooks at the time.

My point is, it's hard to say that SH2+RS*2 would be as good without seeing some numbers on a synth that is aspected, which you may or may not have already done.



If I might ask, the Name skill increases the base efficiency of brand by 200%(1-%progress)... so that at 0 progress it would have a base of 300%? If that's correct then that means Brand with Name active would be a 600% progress opener for recipes Aspected to that element because Brand get x2 efficiency when used on Aspected recipes.

Yeah your math is right on the Name skills. Not sure about elemental crafts since I haven't crafted any just yet. Though in theory you would be correct.

600% progress opener might be problematic though at the moment since there's a very legitimate chance that you might 1shot your craft

test it yourself on a level 1 craft like hempen yarn

[Imdesyda]

SHII = 25 CP
SHII = 5 stacks
1stack of SHII = 5CP

The other 3 stacks of SHII don't magically disappear if you use RS. You can very well HT 3x after RS'ing

Fair enough point. Since you didn't actually mention it I'm going to assume you are referring to 1* crafting. In testing with 1* progress Name/Brand are in fact quite useless. Because the recipe is higher than level 60 it actually halves the progress I get using it on regular level 60 and below synths. You can fix this by using Ingenuity but it really isn't worth it. I am not sure if this is a product of the elemental nature of the abilities but Rapid Synth doesn't seem to be effected nearly as much by the increase in recipe level making it a clear winner.

Since everything below 1* is a joke to HQ anyway there is little use for Rapid Synth while crafting them. It's easier just to macro the whole process and in a lot of cases (Drac Pots being a big one for me) using Name/Brand removes a step of progress which can be used on additional Hasty Touch to help RNGesus proof the macro as much as possible. Since it's all macro-ed Brand is of course used while SHI is up as part of my finishing rotation.

[Sibyll]

snip

I did it on a Vintage Bastard Sword (Aspect Fire). 222 Progress with Brand only. 666 Progress with Name up. The new set of recipes have progress bars that go up to 1430. A PbP would yield 476. If Aspect is a factor, you'd get a 666 hit on the first and then your second would be 457 (666/1430~0.47; 200*(1-.47)=106; 206% hit would be 2.06*222=457). You'd basically be getting 2/3s of the progress bar in two hits for the cost of 15+12+10 (2 SHIIs).

We run into the same issue that we always have. Aspect Characteristics are only ever used on furniture, which can't be HQ'd so the Brands aren't necessary, or glamours, which don't need to be HQ'd so the Brands aren't necessary. Like One-Ilm Punch I find the concept great, but if they aren't going to present us with scenarios where we can utilize the skill then it may as well not exist at all.