Alexander Savage: The raid that killed the ability to help your friends clear

[SovereignAegis]

Like I am reading how the loot works and this kind of... just... ow.

Wow.

Even just one experienced player? Ow.

Let alone the ability to farm this raid to get loot seems.... incredibly... difficult... Need to somehow set up a premade party of 4 for optimal perks and take 4 randoms to get loot? This seems worrisome.


"If there are one to four players in your party replaying a turn, only a single treasure coffer will appear.
If there are five to seven players in your party replaying a turn, no treasure coffers will appear."

[Kietsu]

I gather from your join date that you're probably a bit new to the game.
This is how all of the 'hardcore' raids have worked on release.

Edit: If you're taking 'randoms' with you you're not likely to clear at all.

[Nixxa]

I gather from your join date that you're probably a bit new to the game.
This is how all of the 'hardcore' raids have worked on release.

Edit: If you're taking 'randoms' with you you're not likely to clear at all.

Well not quite, the penalty is actually fairly new...If my memory serves it was introduced in FCOB. Previously once you completed or skipped a turn in BCOB/SCOB you could not go back to clear or help others period, you were fully locked out of that floor until the next week. This made it so you generally could not help others period as you could risk getting locked out of a floor or clear it before your static and end up not being able to run that floor with them. I like this system as it allows me to help people learn/clear content where I otherwise would have been able to do nothing but give emotional support and some nuggets of info here and there, but I also think the penalty should have been enacted from 2 members who have cleared onwards. The current system was set up so that people couldn't sell the runs while the content was still relevant, but as it stands now a group generally doesn't want someone who has already cleared for that content as you have to suffer a 50% reduction in loot for bringing them along.

When my raid groups would do content, whether learning or farming we would not want someone that had already cleared for the week, period. If we were learning a turn we didn't want to risk actually clearing it with them and losing the loot, if we had it on farm we weren't about to take a penalty for no reason. In the end one person can make a great teacher, but you can't carry 7 others yourself so the penalty does more harm than good in that sense. I would prefer that bringing one person who cleared would incur no penalty outside of maybe preventing that player from rolling on gear, while from 2 members onward the current penalties would be appropriate. This would promote having a little helping hand from someone that cleared to help a group learn without stiffly penalizing the group for their presence.

[Eidolon]

When my raid groups would do content, whether learning or farming we would not want someone that had already cleared for the week, period. If we were learning a turn we didn't want to risk actually clearing it with them and losing the loot, if we had it on farm we weren't about to take a penalty for no reason.

I always found this logic rediculous and silly. I've met so many people that, when I offer to help, their answer isn't "Sure, come help us out!" It's "Have you cleared this week?"

It's absolutely stupid, because the people I see would rather take no loot than getting even one chest. This is the part where I shake my head. The people I met literally chose NO loot over getting a piece of loot for their static. Tell me, where is the logic in that? Why would you choose nothing over something? Just because otherwise you -MIGHT- get a clear and get 2 pieces instead?

*Shakes his head* Honestly. People need to learn that this system is perfect for what it's intended - making sure you dont' help other groups farm, but allowing those who want to be helped, to be helped.

Edit in: I don't refer to you, specifically. I had a group that would sometimes sub me in to help them out. I helped them get their first clear with 2 chests via a friend's character. But they seemed to always struggle if I wasn't there. I'm a very good raid caller/lead and am also a very potent healer and can find weaknesses in teams. I'm good at what I do and compensating for other people. This group specifically made me roll my eyes, because sunday after a week of trying on T11 they still hadn't cleared, and STILL refused my help.

[Nixxa]

I always found this logic rediculous and silly. I've met so many people that, when I offer to help, their answer isn't "Sure, come help us out!" It's "Have you cleared this week?"

True, I was never a fan of this notion myself, but that doesn't change the fact that it was a mindset adopted by most. :/ It's this reason specifically why I would have preferred enacting the penalty from 2 players onwards, while a single experienced player can afford a group more wiggle room and help teach mechanics to new players, people rarely used the future for fear of taking a 50% hit to drops on a dungeon with a 1 week lockout. That is a stiff price to charge a group for allowing them to receive a helping hand from someone, and diminishes the purpose of the system in place, which is to promote people helping others. The current system is great as it at least lets me enter again if needed, assuming the group is desperate for a hand, but the penalty for a single person could due with being eased slightly, otherwise the beauty of this feature goes relatively unused.

People truly complain about everything.

Before, once you cleared for the week you couldn't go back in AT ALL. Not to try and get loot again, not to even help other people. You cleared once, you were locked out.

So the new system is massively helpful in comparison.

I'm not complaining per say, I was there in BCOB and SCOB always wishing I could help my FC members and friends learn/progress through content, but I could never do it for the risk of being locked out for the week and screwing my raid group. I know from experience how much of an improvement this system is, but just because a system is implemented does not mean there is no room for changes or improvement. This system is a godsend from the old system to be sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still used relatively little because of the stiff penalties imposed upon a group for accepting help from others.

[Ashkendor]

I gather from your join date that you're probably a bit new to the game.
This is how all of the 'hardcore' raids have worked on release.

No. It's not. Originally, once you cleared you couldn't re-enter until weekly reset. Period.

@OP - the raid didn't kill your ability to help your friends clear at all. If they're truly interested in the clear, your friends should be happy to have the help of someone that's already been able to clear it themselves. Sacrificing a single loot chest to see the fight in its entirety is a pretty small thing. You still get the token for the first clear of the week no matter what, and the person that's already cleared doesn't even see what loot drops so there's no chance they can take it from you. You take the knowledge from that clear and go forward with it, potentially getting a two chest clear for your own group the following week. Seems like a small price to pay if you ask me.

Honestly, my static took a lot of advantage of this in FCoB. We went in 1 and no chest learning and clear parties after our weekly static runs were done so that at least some of us could see the fight.

[FoxyAreku]

I gather from your join date that you're probably a bit new to the game.
This is how all of the 'hardcore' raids have worked on release.

Edit: If you're taking 'randoms' with you you're not likely to clear at all.

Exactly this.

[Ori]

I gather from your join date that you're probably a bit new to the game.
This is how all of the 'hardcore' raids have worked on release.

Edit: If you're taking 'randoms' with you you're not likely to clear at all.

Just a quick comment. I like the loot system for Alex Savage. But I just wanted to point something out really quick.

Just because this is how it has been done before does not make it a good idea.

But again. To be clear. I do indeed like the loot system for Alex Savage.

[Whiteroom]

Just a quick comment. I like the loot system for Alex Savage. But I just wanted to point something out really quick.

Just because this is how it has been done before does not make it a good idea.

But again. To be clear. I do indeed like the loot system for Alex Savage.

I think it has more to do with the OPs melodramatic "the sky is falling" take on the system, as if this is something new.

[Ori]

I think it has more to do with the OPs melodramatic "the sky is falling" take on the system, as if this is something new.

Maybe we are both inflecting different emotions on to OP. I got the impression he was just making a zero emotion statement.

OP. If you read this could you please explain to us how you feel about the Alex Savage Loot system. aka Were you just expressing concern. Or are you bent out of shape about it. Scale of 1-10 and all that Jazz? Thanks!