I feel like my threat as paladin, trash and boss alike, is uncomfortably low.

[Nabudis92]

So Ive been grinding paladin after getting DRK to 60, Im about to hit 55 at the moment, and pretty much the moment I hit sohm al I started experiencing major issues holding threat. All kinds of dps have been riding my heels on multiple target despite a solid 4 flashes and two circle of scorns a pull, and Ive been completely unable to apply even a single goring blade without risking threat.

Bosses aren't a whole lot better. Im generally running 2X halone Combo followed by a goring blade, with an average of about one shield swipe (procs permitting) per 3 hit combo, which on average is causing dps to ride me at anywhere between 40 to 70% threat.

At the time of writing Im 54 wearing an entire suit of high quality 54 gear, weapon, shield, armor, with full vit jewelry, so other than putting on strength right side I can't really improve my damage.


I would love to know if other paladins have observed this or have any comments on the experience.

[Shougun]

At least until I upped my ilvl there was a period of similar feeling, its like the low level dungeons where you just enter and everyone else was ilvl90 synced down to max level. Not sure what SE can do besides place some weird ilvl discrepancy buff for the tank (maybe they should).

Was scraping the barrel of ilvl and level on those later dungeons (as naturally planned by SE) but people farming for tomes coming in at their max ilvl and level possible (in at 60 ilvl 145, with level 60 ilvl 180s xD).

[Ultimatecalibur]

Paladin enmity per action was not increased (save for Shield Swipe) while all DpS got increased damage output. in 2.X 3 or 4 Flashes and CoS gave enough enmity for a full group AoE burn, now 6 is closer to the correct number.

The best advice I can give you is to use the following rotation for multiple targets:

Flash x2 -> GB -> Flash x2 -> GB Combo target 2 -> Flash x2 -> rotate through targets with RoH.
Use both CoS and SW on cooldown.

[Reynhart]

Paladin enmity per action was not increased (save for Shield Swipe) while all DpS got increased damage output.

Our damage output was increasing too, so apart from Flash, we actually generate more enmity now (And with the multipliers, I'm pretty sure the ratio is in our favor).

The only problem I had was doing dungeons on the lowest lvl possible vs DPS who were synced at the highest...and only on multiple targets.

[Giantbane]

Our damage output was increasing too, so apart from Flash, we actually generate more enmity now (And with the multipliers, I'm pretty sure the ratio is in our favor).

The only problem I had was doing dungeons on the lowest lvl possible vs DPS who were synced at the highest...and only on multiple targets.

The enmity generated by flash is dependent on weapon damage and attack power. If you get more STR, flash will generate more enmity, just like every other enmity ability. Where flash is really lacking vs. the other two tanks in the enmity department is that flash cannot crit, and it is not buffed by FoF (it is, however, buffed by Warrior's berserk).

A RoH combo generates 2050 (Fast blade 150 + Savage Blade 600 + Rage of Halone 1300) potency worth of enmity total over 3 gcds for ~683 enmity per gcd. Shield oath decreases potency by 20% before doubling enmity generated for an enmity multiplier of 1.6 for 1093 total enmity per gcd. The 1093 enmity per gcd generated by the combo has not changed since level 40 when we got Shield Oath.

Every DpS on the other hand has received various abilities that have increased their average potency per gcd. The amount of enmity they are generating has increased compared to a Paladin spamming RoH. This is not even factoring in the fact that the Royal Authority and Goring Blade combos generate less enmity than the RoH combo while increasing damage.

True, but I don't think any of the DPS are anywhere near doing 1093 potency per GCD yet.

[Zfz]

Lv52 Sheltron
Lv54 Goring Blade
Lv56 Divine Veil
Lv58 Clemency
Lv60 Royal Authority

Since there is no change to our enmity skills, while DPS often get extra skills that could boost their burst ability, we end up falling behind until at level 60, where the game is currently balanced for.

[Reynhart]

Our enmity is directly tied to the damage we do.

A RoH combo with Shield Oath gives us an average enmity multiplier of 6. No DPS is doing 6 times the damage we do.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Our enmity is directly tied to the damage we do.

A RoH combo with Shield Oath gives us an average enmity multiplier of 6. No DPS is doing 6 times the damage we do.

A RoH combo generates 2050 (Fast blade 150 + Savage Blade 600 + Rage of Halone 1300) potency worth of enmity total over 3 gcds for ~683 enmity per gcd. Shield oath decreases potency by 20% before doubling enmity generated for an enmity multiplier of 1.6 for 1093 total enmity per gcd. The 1093 enmity per gcd generated by the combo has not changed since level 40 when we got Shield Oath.

Every DpS on the other hand has received various abilities that have increased their average potency per gcd. The amount of enmity they are generating has increased compared to a Paladin spamming RoH. This is not even factoring in the fact that the Royal Authority and Goring Blade combos generate less enmity than the RoH combo while increasing damage.

[Reynhart]

The 1093 enmity per gcd generated by the combo has not changed since level 40 when we got Shield Oath.

Try to calculate the enmity generated by any DPS, and you'll see they're still far behind us.

Every DpS on the other hand has received various abilities that have increased their average potency per gcd

In fact, they haven't received that much more, potency wise. Full Thrust is still the highest potency for DRG, and Battle Litany don't give a constant boost.

If you see really big numbers nowadays, it's because the attack power is higher, so for the same potency, you do much more damage. Which is also true for PLD since they receive the exact same attack boost.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Try to calculate the enmity generated by any DPS, and you'll see they're still far behind us.

In fact, they haven't received that much more, potency wise. Full Thrust is still the highest potency for DRG, and Battle Litany don't give a constant boost.

That is not what I mean. An increase in average potency per gcd (even slight) for DpS is an increase in average enmity per gcd at the same time. This means it takes fewer gcds for a DpS hitting a target that you are not focusing on with RoH to catch up or exceed the enmity you generated with your 3 or 4 flashes.

If you see really big numbers nowadays, it's because the attack power is higher, so for the same potency, you do much more damage. Which is also true for PLD since they receive the exact same attack boost.

False. Unless the tank is in Str accessories, tank enmity generation is not growing at the same rate as that of true DpSs. At 54, a full geared i133 a tank wearing Vit accessories has 120 less strength from gear than a Dragoon or Monk. That is a significant amount that combined with increased average potencies can lead to tanks that have yet to change from their level 50 rotations to have enmity trouble. The Enmity leads tanks can generate are still very large, but it now takes more actions to build up enough enmity to prevent peeling for the same length of time.