The positive Astrologian thread!

[Aurum]

Snip

SCHs use RNG in an entirely different way than Astro does. SCH RNG can only ever work in a SCHs favor since a crit adlo is always nice. It's not necessary, and isn't something people rely upon for specific things. AST RNG on the other hand often makes your cards come up at irrelevant times. A crit adlo is never irrelevant; AST's cards often are.

And if the cards aren't the core aspect of the class(even though many of our abilities are related to manipulating them), then what is? WHM has AoE heals and general healing output covered. SCH has single target shielding and DPS covered. Where does AST fit?

[TatoRazzino]

Every job has downsides. The lack of a Cure III is one of the things AST haters bitch a lot about. During A1 tonight, our WHM never got the chance to land a Cure III outside of the stacking before the jump the oppressors do. So, the thing that made our WHM shine was Divine Seal, which is a bonus that neither SCH nor AST has (Dissipation make you lose the fairy, which heals too so, it evens out). This means that a SCH/AST group will have that weakness to cover. One solution is placing Eos near the healers, since Selene is hard to use during that fight and make her buff healing potency when needed. There are strategies to minimize lack of healing issues from not having a WHM. People can also work out the direct DPS loss as a WHM/AST duo. This also means that groups will have to work out the lack of utility from not having AST; this can put some stress over BRD/MCH, for example. My point actually is: it's not all sugar and rainbows with a SCH/WHM duo. And I was doing this duo tonight.

[Aurum]

The problem, though, is that people aren't missing that utility. All the bases are already covered by other classes more capable of covering them. And from what you've said about how AST works with another healer tells me that our place in a raid is to make things harder on our co-healer. When paired with a scholar, what we bring to the table shouldn't be "more fairy micro and less dps for you, Mr. scholar". and when with a WHM it shouldn't be "You get to DPS less, Mr. WHM". Both of these situations seem directly detrimental to the party, and is indicative of the fact that AST is currently just a second string pinch hitter in an otherwise all-star lineup.

[TatoRazzino]

Snip

If you're only getting bad cards, you're using them wrong. Drawing a Bole can save a cooldown from your tank rotation (and yes, tanks rotate cooldowns during raids) and the Spear can make a NIN do more DPS with Ninjutsus. If you don't have a NIN and your tank is doing fine, then you use your tools. By using RR, you can make up for the Draw you "lost". The other cards are always useful in raid situations. Arrows can be used for healers and almost all DPS jobs, the Balance is a direct DPS increase which can be Spread in case you can't use it at the moment. MP and TP add a lot of utility and make your BRD/MCH dps more steady since it takes some of their Refresh job. There's no possible scenario in which your cards won't help the party; the chance of that happening (like, drawing all Spears) is so low that it only makes this whole argument ridiculous: people are overreacting about something that is not gonna happen in a raid encounter.

[TatoRazzino]

Snip

You sound like you never did progression raiding before, dude. You're all stuck in a 2.x meta and you can't shake it off. There were several situations tonight in which having Synastry, Time Dilation, Lightspeed, Disable, insta-cast shields and even Collective Unconscious would have made healing a lot EASIER. Having an AST in the party adds utility and some nice healing tools which WHM/SCH don't have. Things are going to be hard no matter which healing duo you get in there. People are using WHM/SCH because everyone is used to that, since they've been used since 2013. Hardcore progression groups don't want to waste time learning anything other than the fight, and that's why lots of them are sticking to the old jobs or to jobs that have easy learning curves. Healing is more complex than DPSing, since there's no rotation to follow and no dummy to train on.

[Aurum]

I would agree with you on the DPS cards if the cards made up the difference between our personal dps and the dps lost from replacing a WHM or SCH with an AST, but the cards fail to do that by a wide margin. If AST is given the ability to buff dps, then what is the point if they can't even account for the loss of dps from having us in the party in the first place? As for spear, I would agree that it's a good card to draw, but the way it works is currently so awkward that I find it night useless. As far as spear/ewer go, I'm okay with ewer, but none of the current endgame content sees people TP starved, so why would I care about spire?

[TatoRazzino]

There have been people saying that TP is a problem in A2 Savage. Also, when my group cleared t13 (pre-echo), TP was an issue. Tonight in A1, there was BARELY room for healer DPS. Anytime me or the WHM went into Cleric, someone died; the healing check is intense. Cards would have helped a lot. Other than that, I can pull similar DPS on my AST and on my SCH in short bursts, and I can pull over 400 on Faust. AST has 2 DoTs that can't miss and a 200 potency burst; one of the DoTs is stronger than Bio II by 100 potency, which can make up for the lack of Miasma (which can miss); the difference between the burst from Broil and Malefic II can make up for the lack of Shadow Flare. Of course, you won't be able to do that for a long time, but WHM got some new nasty tools too. You just need to work out a strategy. Healing checks won't allow a SCH to DPS for a long time even with a WHM on the party, so an AST will be more than fine solo healing for short periods while the SCH does it.

[GideonHighmourn]

So to put this back on topic ...

I really like your screenshot, Parawill. Gravity is easily one of my favorite animations from HW!

[TatoRazzino]

True astro has access to helios at all times but as long a boss mechanics are based around tired patterns then the scholar has access to those abilities when it is most required in the raid which matters most off all.

I forgot to answer this. Yes, it's true: SCHs can make up for the job's downsides by learning the fight and practicing. This is true for WHMs as well: you learn how to live without the skill to shield efficiently. AST players need to get better at their job and 1 month practice isn't time enough to make up for the 2 years people have been playing WHM and SCH.

[Aurum]

Haha, sorry for getting off track. I really enjoy a good debate and tend to get pretty involved in them. But yeah, definitely a nice shot of gravity; It almost looks like it's throwing off the light that's making those shadows. My compliments to parawill ^^