The positive Astrologian thread!

[TatoRazzino]

Again, people are showing how they fail to understand the core concepts of the job. And they're also biased and hypocritical, since a lot of the so-called SCH superiority over AST relies on... landing crit Adlos at very specific moments. Nocturnal Aspected Helios shields for the same amount as Succor and Nocturnal Aspected Benefic shields for around 150 less HP than Adlo, when it doesn't crit, but AST shielding is instant cast, which makes it easier to land in multiple targets and doesn't require any use of cooldowns (Swiftcast). Unless Adlo crits at the exact moment you need it to (which is TOTALLY based on RNG), SCH is not shielding more than AST. So, yeah, stop this whole "Oh cards are RNG based" so-called argument, because SCH relies on RNG too to be superior than AST.

[TatoRazzino]

Also, if you think that cards are bad, ask your DPS players to stop using cooldowns like Blood for Blood. A normal Balance raises DPS for the same amount as Blood for Blood does, and you can extend it for 15 more seconds with Time Dilation. It's not about getting the exact card you supposedly need at an specific time, it's about adding utility to the whole raid and minimizing DPS loss. When you get a Balance and you see people on their burst DPS rotation, you can use it, or you can store it for later with Spread. If you draw a Bole and use it on your tank, he can save a cooldown that he's rotating to use it on a bigger blast; if you don't want to do that, you can increase the potency of your next card. There are cards for everyone and if you get an absolutely useless card, which is almost impossible during a raid progression (4 cards are always useful, which means there's a 4/6 chance you'll draw something good), you can always Shuffle it and try your luck.

[TatoRazzino]

And please, SCH players need to stop talking about Selene as if that fairy did anything amazing and OP to the group; she adds like 30 dps to some jobs, while she does almost nothing nothing to jobs like SMN and can drain the TP of other jobs. People are talking about WHM and SCH as if they didn't have any downsides, which it's not true. They act like there are no cooldowns, no losses and no restrictive mechanics to anything. Like, SCHs only get 3 Aetherflow stacks per minute, which means they get to choose which skills to use; you can't just blast 3 Lustrates and then pretend you don't lose almost ALL your AoE healing potency. Emergency Tactics is nice, but it only makes your Succor equivalent to Helios/Medica, which AST/WHM have all the time; and on Adlo, it makes the potency reach 600, which is lower than Benefic II/Cure II; it can go up, but it depends on RNG – and if RNG is bad for AST, it's bad for SCH, so you can't depend on it to make your case against AST.

[Aurum]

Snip

Yes, it's true that aetherflow has a cost, but that being said, SCH gets 3 more aetherflows a minute than AST does, so saying it's not that great is like telling a person without a car that "yes, I have a car, but it just gets me from point A to point B. It's nothing special". Yes, maybe you're not riding around in a ferrari, but that's not what the person who has to walk to work every day cares about.

And as far as the RNG element goes, if you wanted to level the RNG playing field between SCH and AST, you'd have to do this: take all of your aetherflow skills, roll them into a ball, and put them on one button. You can only press that button every 20 seconds, and when you do, it randomly activates a skill that consumes aetherflow. Oh, you wanted to lustrate that tank? Too bad, you get Sacred Soil.

[TatoRazzino]

snip

I don't want to level the RNG playing field, I'm saying that RNG is not a bad thing. SCHs use it too, and a lot. And it works out for them. The point of the cards was never to make a party pass a DPS check they couldn't pass without them or save a tank from a blow he wouldn't survive without them. That's not the core concept of the job. It would be like saying that SCH was crap for not being able to land critical Adlos at specific moments to shield tanks from busters they wouldn't survive with a normal Adlo. ASTs have very nice healing tools and are reliable at the healing end when played properly; the cards are a bonus and add utility to long runs. You have a 4/6 chance to draw cards that are useful all the time to almost all groups and you get tools to manage the ones you don't want. You're not gonna see DPS numbers go sky high, but that was NEVER the point. Stop saying that RNG to cards is a problem, because it isn't.

[Aurum]

Snip

SCHs use RNG in an entirely different way than Astro does. SCH RNG can only ever work in a SCHs favor since a crit adlo is always nice. It's not necessary, and isn't something people rely upon for specific things. AST RNG on the other hand often makes your cards come up at irrelevant times. A crit adlo is never irrelevant; AST's cards often are.

And if the cards aren't the core aspect of the class(even though many of our abilities are related to manipulating them), then what is? WHM has AoE heals and general healing output covered. SCH has single target shielding and DPS covered. Where does AST fit?

[TatoRazzino]

Snip

If you're only getting bad cards, you're using them wrong. Drawing a Bole can save a cooldown from your tank rotation (and yes, tanks rotate cooldowns during raids) and the Spear can make a NIN do more DPS with Ninjutsus. If you don't have a NIN and your tank is doing fine, then you use your tools. By using RR, you can make up for the Draw you "lost". The other cards are always useful in raid situations. Arrows can be used for healers and almost all DPS jobs, the Balance is a direct DPS increase which can be Spread in case you can't use it at the moment. MP and TP add a lot of utility and make your BRD/MCH dps more steady since it takes some of their Refresh job. There's no possible scenario in which your cards won't help the party; the chance of that happening (like, drawing all Spears) is so low that it only makes this whole argument ridiculous: people are overreacting about something that is not gonna happen in a raid encounter.

[kiraan]

Snip.

Did you just say that Aspected Benefic shields for around 150 less HP than Adlo but SCH is not shielding more than AST ? But the big thing is, thats not even the main problem of AST vs SCH or AST vs WHM.

To get back on track with the topic, i like the concept of the class and i'm waiting to see if SE reinforce the card aspect to take care of the shortcomings that we can experience at the moment.

[TatoRazzino]

Did you just say that Aspected Benefic shields for around 150 less HP than Adlo but SCH is not shielding more than AST ?

I may have phrased that badly. My point is: 150 extra shielding will not save your target from death, it will only delay it. And AST has means to heal big when needed, with Benefic II, which is a skill that SCHs lack. Lustrate is nice, but it has less potency and it's not available all the time, since you need to be smart to not overuse it and drain your Aetherflow stacks. People are stressing over aspects that are easily fixed with playing the job right.

[kiraan]

I may have phrased that badly. My point is: 150 extra shielding will not save your target from death, it will only delay it. And AST has means to heal big when needed, with Benefic II, which is a skill that SCHs lack. Lustrate is nice, but it has less potency and it's not available all the time, since you need to be smart to not overuse it and drain your Aetherflow stacks. People are stressing over aspects that are easily fixed with playing the job right.

Don't forget that SCH has Emergency tactis that can be use either on ST healing or group healing that still get the crit bonus multiplier on a 30sec CD. Plus SCH can recover MP pretty easily even if you were to spam heal.

Its cool that people enjoy AST, i do too, but saying that SE don't need to take a serious look at their abilities and spells is just ridiculous.