If you want MCH to be support, let us be support.

[Ryaz]

So, I've been giving it some thought and honestly, while I can't speak intelligently on BRD (BRD players will have to comment on their class), MCH doesn't really feel like a support class. Pretty much all of our utility skills are short lasting, on long cooldowns and are entirely situational. I consider us less a support class and more an "oh ****" class. Everything we have is situational at best and isn't truly supporting the party. When things hit the fan, we're useful. When not, we're a burden. That's NOT how support is supposed to be, so I've come up with a few suggestions to make MCH real support and not a class that's just brought along for progression and then dropped when they aren't needed anymore.

MP/TP Regen: Give the turrets back their attacks, remove the 15% damage loss from BRD. Reason: We already have lower damage due to lower weapon damage. No need to punish us again for doing the job we're supposed to be doing.

Physical/Magical Vulnerability: Make it more like Hot Shot. Something that needs to be refreshed or even uses MP, but lets it stay up as a permanent buff. Reason: There are a few classes that can keep up a permanent debuff of 10% against slashing/piercing. No reason why we, as a support class, shouldn't be able to give 5% to the whole party for physical or magical all the time. This would help make up for the lower dps we do.

Dismantle/Rend Mind: Same as above. Reason: Helps ease the burden on the healers throughout the fight instead of just on situational tank busters. This makes it useful much more than the 10 seconds we can do every 90 seconds.

Obviously, they'd have to balance these. My suggestion would be to possibly have them be different "turret stances" or something like that where they drain mana. They could even be various "promotions"-- or, Knight Promotion for damage reduction, Queen promotion for damage buff and King promotion for regen. You can only have one stance up at a time, either providing a damage boost, damage reduction or tp/mp regen. We may have to switch them depending on the situation. This would allow us to really support the party at all times and justify the lower dps we have in all content, not just end game raiding content. I'll gladly take a hit to dps like we have now if I felt like I was always bringing something to the party through all content and not just holding the group back.

[Atlaworks]

Dude I posted almost exactly this in another topic like four minutes after you, did you read my mind or something?

I mean, not exactly the same, but I had the same idea to make a proposed utility tweak topic on this too. We had a few different ideas, but I still agree with the primary prospect- if we're going to be based more on support and debuffing, our support and debuffs shouldn't be taking a backseat to losers who do more DPS than us anyway. +1, totes.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I fully agree. Bard and Machinist are the only DPS jobs fully considered support, yet suffer damage penalties for actually being so. THEN we are further penalized when we utilize our support skills. Why this is logical in the eyes of the developers is beyond me, but when other DPS jobs not only do more damage than we do, and also have far better/useful party support abilities, AND on shorter cooldowns, then who are we really supporting here?

SE, if anything, this fundamental approach to the "support" DPS needs a second look. We're not asking to be top DPS or anything of the sort. But at least let us shine at the unspoken role we're shoehorned into.

[LambLich]

I think the fundamental fuck up must go back to when they somehow decided bard would be the follow up to archer.

[SovereignAegis]

I 1000000000000000000000000% support this.

I feel like they wanted to go a certain direction with MCH and that they undertuned everything incredibly hard. I want them to just up our support abilities through the roof, at present they aren't noticeable at all. Like really they aren't.

Just put the pedal to the metal and crank MCH's support up to where it was envisioned. There is no possible way that they envisioned it to be this terribly low AND restricted by so many factors like cooldowns and shared cooldown with other skills, short duration, etc.

[narcissus_19]

I guess it depends how valuable these 'support' skills are during alexander savage. If it turns out that actually having a brd/mch is vital to clearing the fight or are preferred to another damage dealing class, then fine, but if groups can clear it just as efficiently without a brd/mch, why bring one at all. In theory, brd/mch mp/tp regen abilities provide excellent raid utility, keeping healers healing and dps attacking, not to mention foe's requiem (and the mch equivalent) . It's just a case of whether brd/mch raid utility compensates for their lower dps.

[Kayote]

oh lord... this again. I cant even ...... ok Im just going to repost an old-ish post because all these "OMG BRD/MCH is support" just gives me a "give up on humanity" headache.

I want to see where I can queue up as support. Show me in what current content I can sit back, buff the shit out of everyone and not get kicked for sucking. I will eat every word Ive said on the subject. Go ahead.


..... We're not support, it does not exist.

You want to see what real support class looks like? In a game with actual support roles. Educate yourself!
http://telarapedia.gamepedia.com/Bard_abilities

Notice how its also a Bard, a support Bard none the less. Thats what a (list of skills for) support class looks like. All kinds of buffs and even heals! Now compare that to (FFXIV) BRD. K thx.

BTW .. this is what DF looks like in a game with a support role.

Count them ... 4, not 3 ... 4. Thats what 4 roles look like. Now compare that to the DF in FFXIV and tell me if you spot the difference.

Also, no other class can really do what the Rift Bard does except the other "support" roles. Other DPS classes in this game have comparable buffs with Bards. Bards may be better (arguably) ... but it in no way is it some class defining difference.

Is any of this sinking in yet? Can we stop pretending Bard is a support class now? No? Bah, who am I kidding... of course not.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[Aiselia]

I think it's time they implement a split job like SCH/SMN.

Archers can choose between Bard and Sniper. Bard can be picked for if you're raiding and may need the support utilities. Sniper would be for the other 95% of the game where you don't need the support songs, like all the dungeons that aren't raids, trials, that clearly very minor portion of the game where you're going through that story thing and doing quests and aren't always going to be grouping with someone else to kill things for you.

That way Bard can be balanced around their support options, while snipers can be balanced around being DPS.

[NovaLevossida]

I think it's time they implement a split job like SCH/SMN.

Archers can choose between Bard and Sniper. Bard can be picked for if you're raiding and may need the support utilities. Sniper would be for the other 95% of the game where you don't need the support songs, like all the dungeons that aren't raids, trials, that clearly very minor portion of the game where you're going through that story thing and doing quests and aren't always going to be grouping with someone else to kill things for you.

That way Bard can be balanced around their support options, while snipers can be balanced around being DPS.

Sniper feels more suited for MCH. Ranger would traditionally be the pick for an archer DPS name.

[Typhoria]

Support tag shouldn't even be considered for MCH. Other than the tp/mp restore, we have no utility. 5% Magical or Physical reduction on 90s cd and 5% Magical or Physical increase on a 120s cd does not qualify as support. I'm surprised that there isn't more interaction with our turret than just overcharge and promote. So much potential available.