Unjust Kicking from Alexander T4

[SDaemon]

It's common courtesy and good manners to at least know what the fight mechanics are before using DF. No one is suggesting you have to be "Pro" or anything like that. Just cursory knowledge of the mechanics... you don't even have to watch a video.

You might consider it common courtesy and good manners. I do not. I am perfectly fine with players going in blind to a DF encounter. I don't expect players to research an encounter before doing it.

When you sign up for a DF you get cast into a pool of random people. If you want to impose expectations onto people than make a PF where you have that level of control. In a DF group, you might be the only one with cursory knowledge of the fight and that is just something you need to go in expecting can happen.

[Kaedan]

You might consider it common courtesy and good manners. I do not. I am perfectly fine with players going in blind to a DF encounter. I don't expect players to research an encounter before doing it.

When you sign up for a DF you get cast into a pool of random people. If you want to impose expectations onto people than make a PF where you have that level of control. In a DF group, you might be the only one with cursory knowledge of the fight and that is just something you need to go in expecting can happen.

The problem is, both you and the people who go in blind after content is well established are the exception, not the rule. And the fact that Party Finder has a specific option for "Learning Party" is a heavy implication that you should use the Party Finder if you don't intend to research the fight beforehand.

It really isn't that hard. Mr. Happy's video guides are usually no more than 5 minutes long, and you can skip half of them since he covers trash as well as bosses (he has skip links to bosses and phases in the corner).

And sorry, common courtesy isn't subjective. At this point, players who haven't done the content are quite obviously the minority. Most everyone has done Alexander at least once by this point. So by not doing any research, you are the weak link. (using royal you, as I don't know your circumstances personally).

I'm not saying I would kick a person just for being new and not bothering to take 3 minutes to look up a fight, but it's just plain rude not to take that 3 minutes to get at least cursory knowledge of the fight. The one exception I can accept is if the player doesn't like to spoil fights and prefers to do them blind and learn... and in that case, that's what the Party Finder is for.

[Klamor]

It's common courtesy and good manners to at least know what the fight mechanics are before using DF.

Common courtesy and good manners... I can't stress this enough. People expect others to at least have an idea of what they're getting into before jumping into something. To put some perspective on it, you have to basically know what you're doing before you can be licensed to drive on public streets. You have to have knowledge both academic and practical, before you're allowed to perform a trade. Taking this "it's just a game" mindset and warping everything to suit your own needs and basically saying "fuck you" to anyone else that's come before you is just as disrespectful.

Putting it back in line; yes, this is just a game. But you're here with other, real-live human beings on the other side of those pixels. Just as you wouldn't jump into a sport without having first reviewed at least a rulebook of the game, don't just expect the people around you to hold your hand and guide you from the hazards that will surely result in your (pixel-y) death. A person way back in this thread said that only "bad" players need to look at a guide... (metaphor alert) well, I really hope you don't live anywhere near me, and that hopefully you haven't killed anyone since you probably didn't read your driver's handbook before you jumped behind the wheel. (/end metaphor)

[MeiUshu]

[QUOTE=Klamor;3165721]Common courtesy and good manners... I can't stress this enough. People expect others to at least have an idea of what they're getting into before jumping into something. To put some perspective on it, you have to basically know what you're doing before you can be licensed to drive on public streets.

But in order to pass the exam to get a driving licence, you take driving lessons with someone sitting near you and bringing you along by hours of teaching. I hope you dont say that in order to take a driving licence you need to look up a site and when you are a pro in that you can take the driving test right ?

I think your example goes towards those that say you need to be taught and not just read....eh?

Just me though....this is a sterile conversation as it is..pointless....some feel their god ways give them all the rights ..nothing you or me can do about it just hope for the best and move on.

Mei

[Nadirah]

To be frank, you shouldn't run difficult content for the first time using Duty Finder if you don't research the fight first. If you want to "learn while doing", you should start or join a Party Finder group that is specifically for that purpose.

If you're going to run it using DF, you should at least research the fight first.

Dungeons are generally easy enough that the rule doesn't really apply to them.

Except everyone says "DF is for practice" and throws a fit.

[Zohar_Lahar]

The last time I tried the fourth Alexander fight (last Tuesday), I got called a "lazy garbage SCH" because apparently the BLM focus targeting me couldn't see that I used Lustrate or Indomitability and yelled at me for not specifically using Physick much. And even though I positioned Eos right at the center and did my best to heal the tanks and DPS, the other healer complained that he was "carrying" me and was told I had to "start" healing. And then I get vote kicked out after a single wipe.

Given how challenging that fight is especially in the third phase (which was when the wipe occurred), and the fact only two people will even get any loot upon victory, a toxic environment with verbal abuse in the event of failure is unacceptable. I see no reason to repeat the Alexander fights if I'm just going to yelled at for spurious reasons that probably wasn't solely my fault.

[Ashkendor]

DF isnt designed to be pro parties if want the perfect party then those ppl should preform when i tried floor 3 there wasnt even any videos available sooooo

DF also isn't designed as a carrying mechanism for players that don't want to bother learning the encounters.

We already have merc groups for that.

The last time I tried the fourth Alexander fight (last Tuesday), I got called a "lazy garbage SCH" because apparently the BLM focus targeting me couldn't see that I used Lustrate or Indomitability and yelled at me for not specifically using Physick much. And even though I positioned Eos right at the center and did my best to heal the tanks and DPS, the other healer complained that he was "carrying" me and was told I had to "start" healing. And then I get vote kicked out after a single wipe.

It sounds like you were better off without that group anyway. You had a clueless healing partner and at least one clueless DPS, so you should probably be glad that they kicked you before the shit really hit the fan. Honestly, if I notice that I'm having to do a majority of the healing in a given encounter, I start paying close attention to what my partner is and isn't doing so that I can give them specific things to work on. Calling you garbage and telling you to "start healing" isn't helpful or constructive at all. Now that I think about it, I don't even really know why the BLM would focus target you. He could just as easily see your cast bar in the party list.

Given how challenging that fight is especially in the third phase (which was when the wipe occurred), and the fact only two people will even get any loot upon victory, a toxic environment with verbal abuse in the event of failure is unacceptable. I see no reason to repeat the Alexander fights if I'm just going to yelled at for spurious reasons that probably wasn't solely my fault.

Eh, so you ran into one bad group. Don't let it ruin your day. Honestly, my static queues as 6/8 or 7/8 a lot of the time for Alexander and don't mind a bit if we get someone new as long as they're willing to listen to an explanation. In fact, the vast majority of the time it turns out to be a happy first clear and some easy bonus law for everyone.

[PetiteMalFleur]

Op, content has been out for two weeks. I don't see what the difference between reading a guide and asking your random party to write one up. Most people don't mind it but they aren't obligated to and you shouldn't get angry and upset at people who don't want to. When you go into a df party blind it's a roll of the dice what the group will expect. Only way to control that is to put yourself in pf and advertise a progression group. Otherwise you're at the mercy of what the group decides.

If it helps you feel better, chances are you were kicked so people could drop without penalty and requeue in hopes of getting a more experienced group.

[gzuscry]

DF even prioritizies new players, votekickin for not knowing a guide should actualy be grounds for legal action if someone had the guts to spill some money on vanity law case -_-. Still if the very code puts new players in ppl parties that cleared them together, then SE is obligated by their own doing to defend every single kicked player for going in the fight blind in DF. Im sure there are some laws that will solidify those arguments.

[Kathryn]

People who treat people new to the instance disgust me, How can you be so ignorant to not help out a new player and SAVE yourself from a wipe how hard is it to just type a brief explanation instead of going in head first without explaining then wiping and having to start the fight again, People seem to be afraid to talk to one another these days incase they get their head bitten off.

In any case I dont even think it's hard to even create a macro to use incase anyone is New in a dungeon and just click it to explain, I especially as a tank HATE it when I get silent groups as it's purely ignorant especially when the only word people can say in a dungeon is "Go" aaaaaaarrrrrggggghh it makes me so angry, People just TALK to each other this is a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER ONLINE Experience not a Single player game!