Strength Tanks and You.

[Ashkendor]

I believe they call that being carried.

Er... Are you saying that all healers get carried? Cause yeah no. Just... No. ._.

[Aeyis]

Er... Are you saying that all healers get carried? Cause yeah no. Just... No. ._.

Are you saying everyone has their party do an awesome job, while slacking on their job? Cause yeah no. Just... No. ._.


Sense you make not. Allow your feelings for STR accessories to cloud your judgement you have.

[Taekrys]

I mostly play as a WHM, but I also played a lot as a PLD in 4-men dungeons.
I think most of this discussion is biased: people just need to check well their group skill before overdoing with either too much cleric stance, pulls too big or too few vitality accessories.

Overconfident Tanks usually rush and pull all they can pull not even knowing if their healer is capable enough or not. Some people have limits, you have to aknowledge that.
Overconfident Healers exceeds in using Cleric Stance and do a mistake. Some tanks don't know how to handle their CDs or they trust you to just heal them all the time.

So, Healer and Tank should find their own reciprocal balance. After they do, you can afford being more reckless with either roles.

Also, I think what's most vicious about PUGs is the very very bad habit of DPS pulling more adds 'cause they want do to more AOE, deciding to stress tank and healer with bigger pulls they can handle or enjoy.

[Jahaudant]

I think these healers would like a word with you...

Hey guy, healers are not meant to DPS in this game. Healing is an intricate balance of Curing, Regen, and afking 20 seconds.

[Tatsuya227]

I think most of this discussion is biased: people just need to check well their group skill before overdoing with either too much cleric stance, pulls too big or too few vitality accessories.

Overconfident Tanks usually rush and pull all they can pull not even knowing if their healer is capable enough or not. Some people have limits, you have to acknowledge that.
Overconfident Healers exceeds in using Cleric Stance and do a mistake. Some tanks don't know how to handle their CDs or they trust you to just heal them all the time.

So, Healer and Tank should find their own reciprocal balance. After they do, you can afford being more reckless with either roles.

I think what's most vicious about PUGs is the very bad habit of DPS pulling more adds 'cause they want do to more AOE, deciding to stress tank and healer with bigger pulls they can handle or enjoy.

One of the best post Ive seen on this topic

[Waliel]

Ahhh really? So Let me give you numbers....

So are you trying to say that a Black Mage with i180 gears (Laws) Have an Accuracy of 599 and a WHM with i180 have ONLY Acc of 354 and a WHM have 95% of hit and just 5% missing? Get real .... With Acc 354 You barely scatching the accuracy needed for Second Coil of Bahamut. Any mage including healer need as much acc as a black would need to hit.

So I just checked, and our SCH missed 15 times against bosses in 14 kills the last time we were doing Alexander. The acc cap is very low.

Are you saying everyone has their party do an awesome job, while slacking on their job? Cause yeah no. Just... No. ._.


Sense you make not. Allow your feelings for STR accessories to cloud your judgement you have.

I'm not sure if you yourself know what you're saying anymore.

You miss the fact that cleric stance has a cooldown of 10 seconds before it can get removed after activating it.

So when the healer pops in cleric, you sould be able to survive for around 12,5 seconds without receiving big heals (cooldown+casttime, when no cd is ready).

Five seconds.

[Freyyy]

But the thing is: you really don't know anything since you only see the story from one side. A majority of career tanks do not play healers and have never healed savage content in i110 gear or T13 with a DRG and no MNK pre-DRG defensive buffs in i110 gear. You will never understand these intricacies and that there is a time and place for everything.

I'll answer that because you quoted me. I'm a career tank, and that's true that I haven't healed "hardcore" content (tho SCH was one of my fav jobs to play in 2.0 after the tanks and the MNK but I have yet to get it to 60). I do understand that there is a time and place for everything, as I stated in my previous posts, I was using melded accessories in 2.0 and ATM I have both sets of VIT and STR accessories and mix and match depending on the need. I said I found out that for instance, 15k HP was plenty enough to main tank everything and that we'll see for savage mode tomorrow. I did progression raiding and I know that when we still not outgear content we tanks have to work on having a safe HP pool in priority, then put the rest on STR. With my co-PLD we had the goal to be the 5th DPS of the party which we succeeded really well as our combined DPS was 1.5 times a DPS's DPS. I've seen my mates using melded accessories even on healers and DPS to get enough VIT to survive T13, and we had a DRG and no MNK either.

With that said, progression raiding was not the first point in this thread. I briefly mentionned it yeah, but the original point here was STR tanks in 4 man dungeons, and people started to complain about them being STR-specced and saying that was bad and that we were only here to tank and wear full VIT gear. The fact is that these people just got a bad tank which would have been the same in VIT gear, but they don't want to accept this fact and keep saying that's because of STR gear which is completely stupid. I just entered the discussion to try to make them understand that 4 man dungeons do not need VIT builds at all to be properly tanked and to allow the healer to DPS. A good tank with proper cooldown usage can do everything a full VIT tank can do with full STR gear on, but better because he also has better DPS. That's what people can't understand and keep saying stupid things like "no you STR tanks are a pain to heal" blablabla. And that's why I stopped to argue and grabbed my popcorn until now just to answer you.

Now I'm gonna grab my popcorn again and see how many pages of stupidity we can get.

[KarstenS]

You miss the fact that cleric stance has a cooldown of 5 seconds before it can get removed after activating it and it needs some time to trow out the stuff.

So when the healer pops in cleric, you sould be able to survive for long enough that at least all DoTs can get up.

EDIT: Corrected the cooldown time. But that does't change the generall issue with tanks with no lifepool. When I'm playing as SCH for example I do not leave cleric before all DoTs are up and spread by bane. When the tank dies in this time, its not worth to DPS at all, because just one or two DoTs without bane...is crap. Time for the mushroom would also be nice

[Eye_Gore]

Now I'm gonna grab my popcorn again and see how many pages of stupidity we can get.

Its up to 32 I think most ran out of popcorn a while ago, though there must be a new batch of people, the debate still rages on I see.

[AriaEnia]

I often ask the healer when running dungeon, should i be using str or vit accs? If the healer says "either way is ok" i wear 3 str 2 vit. If the healer says "vit please" then I go full vit. Whatever the healer feels comfortable. But i will never wear 5 str accs, that's just stupid.