Strength Tanks and You.

[Zfz]

But Yoshida said specifically that now that high-end raiders are doing crazy raid-DPS by getting tanks and healers DPSing, they designed Heavensward encouters DPS checks with tanks AND healers DPSing in mind.

Source please?

Because in May, he emphasized again that raid encounters are not tuned with healer dps in mind.

This isn't to refute what you've said, because in a lot of situations (especially involving PUGs) you're absolutely right in that the safety is worth more than extra damage. In my own in-game experiences however I have definitely seen fights won and lost by extra damage output done by tanks and healers far more frequently (both raids and dungeons) than it probably should be. I'm talking about repeated wipes at low percentages in half-PUG groups where I finally tell our off-tank to put on all his strength gear and the wipes turn into clears.

I think this really depends on the group. There are more times than I can remember when I (as full VIT build) survive hairy moments with less than 2k HP. Then the heals drop on me and we go on to win the fight.

Bottom line, VIT builds are not as "useless" and "noob" and "harmful to the raid" as many STR supporters make it sound.

[Gyson]

For 2.0, fights were not designed to require tanks and healers DPSing, yeah. But Yoshida said specifically that now that high-end raiders are doing crazy raid-DPS by getting tanks and healers DPSing, they designed Heavensward encouters DPS checks with tanks AND healers DPSing in mind. It means that you will no longer be able to meet DPS checks if you only have 4 good DPS and tanks just tanking and healers just healing. You're gonna NEED these STR tanks swapping to DPS stance and these healers swapping to cleric whenever they can to ATLEAST meet the enrage timer.

That's what Yoshi said, we'll see in a couple of days when Savage mode comes out.

What I underlined above is not fact, nor his words, but how you're choosing to interpret his comments. There's a wold of difference between keeping tank DPS in mind when designing encounters and requiring tanks to spec/gear for damage.

[Khemorex]

I ran into a PLD wearing fully penta-melded 150HQ RHS in A4N today and he was doing 430dps as MT. A full VIT PLD does about 330dps as MT. Basically a 100dps increase for a PLD. Compared to DPS who should be doing 800+ with the top-notch ones doing 1k+, it comes to about an increase of 2~3% of total raid dps.

It's not something worth throwing away your VIT for. If you wanna do it, go full penta-meld.

so true

[Hix]

Real endgamers use str tanks with cleric dps healers that put out extra dps and still heal enough for the tank to not die. It's called being good.

Pretty much. STR tanks that are too hard to heal usually didn't use their cooldowns correctly, or the healers didn't have good enough reaction time. STR tanks are superior to VIT tanks assuming the tank and healers are good. But that is a big assumption.

[Tsunenori]

Bottom line, VIT builds are not as "useless" and "noob" and "harmful to the raid" as many STR supporters make it sound.

I agree! There's a lot of hyperbole in both sides about these kinds of things, just like there was with the Healer DPS debates. Ultimately you should be doing your best to be adaptable and flexible as a player, and when I tank I definitely keep multiple gear sets on my bar to switch to depending on my group or on how we're doing.

[lololink]

What I underlined above is not fact, nor his words, but how you're choosing to interpret his comments. There's a wold of difference between keeping tank DPS in mind when designing encounters and requiring tanks to spec/gear for damage.

It is for healer DPSing, never read or heard him saying that for tanks or the opposite though.

[nyttyn]

lol 800+ DPS in the duty finder.

half the playerbase can't get 800+ dps on training dummies ._.

[Freyyy]

I ran into a PLD wearing fully penta-melded 150HQ RHS in A4N today and he was doing 430dps as MT. A full VIT PLD does about 330dps as MT. Basically a 100dps increase for a PLD. Compared to DPS who should be doing 800+ with the top-notch ones doing 1k+, it comes to about an increase of 2~3% of total raid dps.

It's not something worth throwing away your VIT for. If you wanna do it, go full penta-meld.

You're speaking about the weakest of the 3 tanks while in tank stance. That's not a good example. Do this with a DRK or a WAR and you'll see a much bigger difference. Plus that penta melded PLD example you took was pretty low. I just did a little test on dummy myself but I'm not gonna say anything about this here because SE with parsers can sometimes go crazy.

It's totally worth throwing away your VIT for. I can reverse the thing : It's not worth throwing 100+ DPS for a useless amount of VIT, which will not help you to get the clear at all.

[Freyyy]

Source please?

Because in May, he emphasized again that raid encounters are not tuned with healer dps in mind.

The source is I think the same thing we both refer to. He said that CURRENTLY, encounters are not tuned with healers and tank DPSing in mind, but seeing what crazy things high-end raiders were able to do by optimizing their healer and tank DPS, they decided to build fights with this new factor in mind for Heavensward raids, thus increasing the difficulty a bit. Beating an enrage timer will be really tougher than it is now.

[MisterLucie]

I ran into a PLD wearing fully penta-melded 150HQ RHS in A4N today and he was doing 430dps as MT. A full VIT PLD does about 330dps as MT. Basically a 100dps increase for a PLD. Compared to DPS who should be doing 800+ with the top-notch ones doing 1k+, it comes to about an increase of 2~3% of total raid dps.

It's not something worth throwing away your VIT for. If you wanna do it, go full penta-meld.

Our WAR tank consistently pulls around 900 dps and our DRK does similar, and the loss of vitality doesn't even matter because right now there is no fight in HW that will put a tank in serious danger unless their healer is off drooling on their keyboard.

Savage Alex will most likely change that this week, but below that there really isn't any reason to be stacking full VIT.