PLD abilities.

[Ceodore]

Let me break it down for you one at a time...

Right now PLD feels just like he is the black sheep of tanks.
First: Sword oath: 50 + dmg to auto attacks? DRK get a 15% dmg buff. Drains MP? doesnt matter. blood price and syphon strike.

It isn't +50 damage to auto attacks. It's a second hit on your auto attacks worth a potency of 50. This means you essentially get a permanent DOT that hits more often than a DOT because out AA is actually faster than you think on Paladins. Further, this is augmented by things like Strength, Attack Power, etc. So it actually results in a higher damage increase than just 15%

AoE enmity: Flash spam is not very useful, makes monsters immune to blind + 0 DPS while DRK and WAR contribute to that too. Circle of Scorn might be okay but has a high cd with 25 sec.

Refine your rotation. Flash applies a 10 second Blind on the first application. The second time you Flash it will apply 5 seconds of Blind. However, what you fail to realize about debuffs is that if a debuff that is weaker or is trying to override one that has more duration than what will be applied is attempting to overwrite the current one, it won't. So the second flash won't apply unless the current application has less than 5 seconds to go. This means that in the first 5 seconds, you can flash all you want, but it won't override the current application. After that 5 seconds, avoid flashing, or you'll clip your duration. My rotation goes like this Flash, Fast Blade, Flash, Riot Blade, Flash, Goring Blade, switch target, Fast Blade, Flash, etc. What you see here is that the first flash applies 10 seconds of blind. The second one won't apply because the current blind has more than 5 second to go still. The third flash will apply, but there's only about 1 second left on the current blind. This third one applies about 5 seconds of blind. The fourth one will apply about 2 seconds of blind, and will apply just about the same time that the current blind falls off. Circle of Scorn is also generally used between that first Goring Blade and the second Fast Blade to bridge the enmity gap between them for more consistent enmity.

Shieltron: Shouldnt only block physical. MP regen is pretty much useless since we have riot blade in our rotation.

Everyone wants to block magical damage. And I admit, that would be nice, and it wouldn't be over powered either. I can see the frustration here, but at the same time, you kind of need to suck it up. And don't scoff at MP regeneration. The amount is equivalent to what Flash costs, and about 1/3 of the cost of Clemency, which allows you to actually use Clemency about 3 times before you go OOM.

Goring Blade: I dont even. a DoT with such low potency. Nothing else?

This skill is actually our highest potency attack. You underestimate the actually damage that comes from a DOT. This is augmented again by your Strength and Attack Power. So it's like having a slightly weaker version of your Shield Oath up for 24 seconds. It's also changed by Skill Speed as well. DOTs received a big boost in strength with 3.0 from Skill Speed.

Clemency: not a single situation where i should/could use this. way too high cast time, low heal amount.

If timed properly, this skill is actually quite easy to use, and it is augmented by your Strength as well. I have had crits of 6-7k from this skill, and the full power of it comes from casting it on another player. Thanks to cast clipping, you can actually get this heal off in less than 3 seconds. This is displayed by mages who cast clip as well. They usually start moving at about the last .5 seconds of the cast, and the spell still triggers, despite them moving. Also, when this skill is used on another player, you also get half the healing that player got. So if you crit for 6 or 7k, you'll see healing for about 3-3.5k, for a total healing of about 9-10.5k. No other casted heal can boast such number in this game without using some kind of augmentation cooldown, not even Cure 2. This literally has a potency of 1800 if cast on another player.

Royal Authority: Spices up rotation a bit. good when not MT/you shouldnt use halones.
When i look at the other tanks buffs/50+ abilities, PLD just feels like a bad joke.

What am i overlooking? Please tell me im not the only one.

Rage of Halone applies a STR debuff that you should ALWAYS have up, so even as OT, you should be using RoH just to keep up that debuff. Royal Authority is great, but again, fights change based on the damage coming in. Thanks to Shield Swipe procing off of physical damage due to block, battles with physical auto attacks see more Shield Swipe procs, and thus is should be used more often to help maintain TP. For this reason, it is true that Royal Authority is rarely used as MT. However, take a fight with mostly magical damage. A4 comes to mind. You'll never see a proc of Shield Swipe, so keeping up the RoH debuff and the DOT from Goring Blade still leaves you with enough time before having to reapply them to also do Royal Authority. So change your rotations based on your fights. Physical fights, I only use RoH and Goring to keep up both debuffs while also using Shield Swipe whenever possible to manage TP and increase Enmity. Magical Fights, I cycle through all three rotations to keep up debuffs as well as do more damage.

Make Clemency proc Divine Veil, thats my #1 fix

This ^ and remove the TP requirement and the Pacification from Shield Swipe and give it the same potency as RoH are my only two wanted changes.

I have to say, i never used clemency except for when i first got it, since i don't have any use for it, since healers have their job and when will i ever use it? but i find the rest of them fine, just wish sheltron would be like bulwark, but being able to block every physical for 10sec, cause you know...make that shield uselfull a bit.

I've used Clemency specifically when a DPS is dead and the healers are down on Swiftcast and I am OT. Or when in A2, I am tanking the last spider, and my OT is being beaten on by the group of like 5 adds with the two Jagd Dolls. I cast Clemency whenever possible to help handle the spike damage better. Also, if Sheltron blocked all physical attacks for 10 seconds, its CD would have to be much more massive, and I see it being too much of a copy of things like Bulwark and Raw Intuition, as Bulwark already almost guarantees this with how strong it is. I think Sheltron is quite fine where it is, good for casual use, but versatile for big tank crunches.

[Doudousteve]

I second this, I think Paladin is great as it is. Drk too. Have yet to play with the new warrior. Pld is pro defense so it's offense is weaker as stated by Yoshi.

Exactly, we can't be good at everything.

[Ceodore]

Exactly, we can't be good at everything.

Some of us can though

[Jandor]

This ^ and remove the TP requirement and the Pacification from Shield Swipe and give it the same potency as RoH are my only two wanted changes.

Excellent stuff, except I like pacification .

[Larethian]

Alright, first Sword Oath, it might be augmented by some stats, still it has a potency of 50 and as the skill says "Increases the potency of auto-attacks by 50". And on top of that, it doesnt effect anything else at all while Darkside increases ALL dmg by 15%.

My Problem about flash isnt the blind. its the amount of enmity and the costs to keep up your enmity on many enemys while a group is bursting AoEs for example.

Clemency, as i said before, while you're MT this skill cant be casted most oh the times since you get interrupted, and even if you're OT its your job most of the times to keep some people save from adds or something, not standing around healing. if a situation gets dangerous your ability to tank is of much more use than to heal.

[Ceodore]

Excellent stuff, except I like pacification .

I like it too, except when it's on a skill that only procs when you block, so the use of it is completely tied to RNG.

Alright, first Sword Oath, it might be augmented by some stats, still it has a potency of 50 and as the skill says "Increases the potency of auto-attacks by 50". And on top of that, it doesnt effect anything else at all while Darkside increases ALL dmg by 15%.

My Problem about flash isnt the blind. its the amount of enmity and the costs to keep up your enmity on many enemys while a group is bursting AoEs for example.

Clemency, as i said before, while you're MT this skill cant be casted most oh the times since you get interrupted, and even if you're OT its your job most of the times to keep some people save from adds or something, not standing around healing. if a situation gets dangerous your ability to tank is of much more use than to heal.

Well, despite what the tool tip says, I can assure you, it is a second hit for 50 potency on your auto attacks. No, it doesn't effect other skills, but believe me, having that second hit on your auto is excellent, since Paladins actually have a quicker auto attack than other tanks.

As for Flash, you might be having uses due to maybe your ilvl and going up against some well geared DPS. I remember first hitting 60, and this was the case, but now sitting at a comfy 183, I see no problems even against DPS with a few points above me. However, this has always been the case, even back in 2.0 with fresh 50s.

Clemency is not suppose you be some amazing thing. It's a fluffer skill. Something to use but not over use anyways. You're going to run into issues with it just as when we ran into issues with Stoneskin. It doesn't make the skill any less good, it just means that it has balance, and that it takes more skill and finesse to use.

[Blitzace]

I've used clemency so many times, when i saw the healer is having a tough spot(I've made over 7k cures with it including getting 3.5k+ on myself on crits) So its kinda hard for me to believe its a useless skill and you never use it, if you never use it thats fine but don't say the skill isn't working, yes its a long cast time but keep in mind the CD is extremly low(2.5seconds) meaning you can basicly use it multiple times in combination with shieltron, a great skill once again.

[Mordithin]

Clemency, as i said before, while you're MT this skill cant be casted most oh the times since you get interrupted, and even if you're OT its your job most of the times to keep some people save from adds or something, not standing around healing. if a situation gets dangerous your ability to tank is of much more use than to heal.

Have you actually tried using Clemency? I MT for my raid group and cast it all the time while tanking bosses. Only time I remember being interrupted was by Blinding Blade in Ravana Ex.

[amihavingfunyet]

Alright, first Sword Oath, it might be augmented by some stats, still it has a potency of 50 and as the skill says "Increases the potency of auto-attacks by 50". And on top of that, it doesnt effect anything else at all while Darkside increases ALL dmg by 15%.

The only advantage Darkside has is that you can actually use it while you are in Grit.
If I make any mistakes feel free to point them out. Also think the +15% damage might be better than RA example on GB, but even worse on RoH.
Comparing Sword Oath to Darkside: 50 Potency on every AA vs 15% damage increase on every hit.
My AA (at level 51, I doubt this changes significantly) hit for about half the damage one Fast Blade does, so I assume it's at about 75 Potency.
+15% damage would give your AA a boost of 11,25 Potency.

Now for Combos, if you spam Royal Authority you get 150 (FB) + 200 (SB) + 340 (RA) for a total of 690 Potency, or 230 per GCD.
Adding +15% damage to that you average 34,5 additional potency per GCD.
You get 3,6 AA inside one combo (3 GCD; 7.5s with no SS) with the Hive weapon (2.08 AA delay).
+15& damage: One RA combo you get 690 + 103,4 potency and 311 potency worth of AA (3,6 * (75 + 11,25)). Totaling 1104,4 potency.
+50 AA pot: One RA combo you get 690 Potency and 450 potency worth of AA (3,6 * (75+50)). Totaling 1140 potency.

[Edewen]

This thread makes me giggle. Paladins are strong. the changes with 3.0 actually made them interesting to play. 2.0 they felt bland, like their toolkit was missing key parts. That is now fixed. To say that paladin is weak is silly considering almost every static has one or wants one.

Is paladin the best offtank? not really. Is that ok. Definitely. Someone has to be last. That is just how ranking work. Instead of looking at the small amount they can't do great. Look at the large amount they can.


The bring block along with parry. Passive mitigation.
The are the ONLY class to bring the str debuff. So their raid slot is safe.
They are the most forgiving aoe tank. If a dark drains his mp, he is screwed. If a paladin does, goring blade combos all around, you will be full very quickly.
They bring the heals/stoneskin. Being able to top yourself off when bad things happen, or help stoneskin people before an ult can help immensely.
They are well balanced. Never should you hear a paladin asking for goad. There is simply no reason. If they need goad, throw some clemency or stoneskins.
They have enough tank cooldowns to almost be annoying. One of which being a "I can't die, suck it boss" that doesn't require any special treatment form healers.