Forcing players through MSQ content makes it un fun.

[Neophyte]

What me wonders, is that this "you have to do the MSQ to get there" also applied on every, damn patch.

I started somewhere in November/December last year and just as i got far enough in MSQ and got my high roulette they moved Snowcloak from ex to high roulette.
Telling me "You have to do MSQ to get your roulette back.", while i was still needing loot (and stones for reliq weapon) for gearing up.

I wasn't able to attemp Shiva Ex before killing Mogry, Ramuh, Leviathan, Shiva in normal mode which are all locked behind MSQ (ther HM versions), and after that their Ex-Versions.

Every time a patch came out it was like "We have new content for you. Though you are already lvl50 you have to do MSQ to unlock all of it, giving you no rewards at all for the Quests except some gil."

[Mholito]

Every time a patch came out it was like "We have new content for you. Though you are already lvl50 you have to do MSQ to unlock all of it, giving you no rewards at all for the Quests except some gil."

It might help to think of the fights as a reward from the quests then, since that seems to be the carrot that makes you do the story quests.

[Neophyte]

It might help to think of the fights as a reward from the quests then, since that seems to be the carrot that makes you do the story quests.

Don't misunderstand me. I had no real problem with that. I still had about 5h MSQ to do, without any XP, to unlock Shiva once it was released, so what?
You alway had to do a lot of MSQ, when new content was released.

[AnnietheCat]

Okay but Ishgard and ALL OF THE NEW CONTENT are explained early in ARR: "Ishgard left the alliance and shut its gates". They tell you that IMMEDIATELY into the Scion portion. They are explained as xenophobic. There's no room left in Eorzea for the new job guilds to be located; it makes total sense that they would come from a place adventurers had never been because we had never seen them before. And because they were starting these new jobs without a base class, it would make ZERO SENSE for a BRAND NEW PLAYER WITH NO UNDERSTANDING OF BATTLE MECHANICS to start at level 30. There is no more room in the pre 3.0 maps to add any new locations for us to visit, and they wouldn't be able to explain them easily lore wise either. EVERYTHING BEING LOCKED AWAY IN ISHGARD IS EXPLAINED EARLY ON BY LORE. When you visit Coerthas early on, you see astrologians mentioned.

[AnnietheCat]

I'm not really sure why it being locked away is the issue. If you didn't want to do the MSQ, you could easily focus on crafting or side quests or gathering or fate grind or any method at all. And no matter what, the MSQ would still be there. No one is forced to do it, but this /is/ a final fantasy game, as I've mentioned already. This is no different from the others, except it is an mmo. This game is wrapped up in its lore and story and music and environments. Handing out free access to all the stuff that 1.0-2.x players worked so hard for would be pointless. You go through the story to see new stuff. When you first start, you can't access the other classes til lvl 10. You can't access any of the other city states until so far into the msq. Ishgard is no different at all. MSQ is important and if you "feel forced", then go focus on something else and pace yourself. It isn't a complex concept.

[Ori]

Ishgard is no different at all. MSQ is important and if you "feel forced", then go focus on something else and pace yourself.

I did want to focus on something else. I wanted to focus on AST, DRK, and MCH.

EVERYTHING BEING LOCKED AWAY IN ISHGARD IS EXPLAINED EARLY ON BY LORE

There are plot devices all over the place in order to explain why we can repeatedly kill the primals. And there is nothing to explain why we repeatedly kill bosses in dungeons. So the story goes both ways. Stretching to explain stuff. and ignoring other aspects.

It isn't a complex concept.

Agreed. You are bashing me for my opinion. a Classic trope that has been happening since goodness know when. It is not that complex to separate subjective from objective. And yet here you are... bashing me for my opinion.

[AnnietheCat]

I'm not bashing your opinion. I'm saying this discussion is circular and pointless and people need to stop whining about it. This isn't WoW. It was not impossible to catch up, therefore being "forced" through MSQ is a non-issue. The new jobs started at level 30. No bean sprout is entitled to being level 30 as soon as they start playing. Learn the game mechanics first; it's stated time and time again in this game that levels 1-50 are the tutorial. That's not an overstatement in the least. Just because you value your limited point of view and perspective more than any other(as in, people who have been playing this game since launch) doesn't make your opinion more important than any other opinion. Others giving you their opinions on how poor your opinion is doesn't mean the same as "bashing". I've not once called you out of your name, but I do think the way you're looking at this is pretty....well pathetic. And I have just as much right to voice my opinion as you.

[AnnietheCat]

If you can't take criticism on how silly you're being about this, then you should probably think before you post. The "well we can do dungeons over and over and over" nonsense is just that-nonsense. The quest lines are separated from dungeons/trials once you've completed them. You can run them a million times if that's what you desire. They have no bearing on the story ONCE YOU HAVE COMPLETED THEM. However, again, there is NO SPACE ANYWHERE PRE EXPANSION to put any of the expansion stuff. Tying it in with the story gives them a reason to do an expansion anyway. You know what it's called when they simply add stuff to what we already have? A patch. This is an expansion. Not a patch. And, as mentioned by someone else, every. Single. Thing. Is msq locked. You don't start the game in Gridania and instantly move to Ul'dah. You don't skip MSQ dungeons because you want to. Everything. is. msq. locked.

[Ori]

I'm not bashing your opinion. I'm saying this discussion is circular and pointless and people need to stop whining about it.

Not whining. You will note in my very first post all I said was "It was slightly less fun."

The new jobs started at level 30. No bean sprout is entitled to being level 30 as soon as they start playing.

I already covered this comment. Let people be a DRK, AST, or MCH upon reaching level 30 or 50.

Just because you value your limited point of view and perspective more than any other

You clearly have not read any of my posts all the way through have you? Others have pointed out how open minded I am, in fact.

This is an expansion. Not a patch.

That's fine. I still had less fun. It is a video game after all. This is a design choice that detracted from the fun for me. And MANY others.

[Ori]

And, as mentioned by someone else, every. Single. Thing. Is msq locked. You don't start the game in Gridania and instantly move to Ul'dah. You don't skip MSQ dungeons because you want to. Everything. is. msq. locked.

Just because it has been done in the past does not make it a good idea by default.

Also I am fine with most content like Dungeons, Trials, Raids and even Side quests being locked behind the MSQ. Letting me into the new zones to grind, make a new class, and explore is all I would like.