Straight to the duty finder.

[Malevicton]

Besides the whole "people are like headless chickens in DF" argument, you also have to consider party composition. For the difficult content you can't get away with strange combinations that df will sometimes give you, which leads to a lot of wasted queues; and with wasted queues come floods of other complaints "some elitist wouldn't let me stay in group" "Some casual refused to leave group" "some tank refused to pull until vote abandon" yadayada.

[Fynlar]

The only content they do not release straight to the duty finder is content that is, at the time, far too difficult for the average DF group.

That clearly isn't true, because they put Alexander in the DF straight away...

[Cyrus-Wallace]

That clearly isn't true, because they put Alexander in the DF straight away...

Which is a baby version of the original raid that will be released tomorrow.

[Fynlar]

Which is a baby version of the original raid that will be released tomorrow.

And something I definitely will never be touching, if the "easy" version is any indication.

*still doesn't even have Savage 2nd coil unlocked*

[Virgal]

Once a new raid is released, it only takes a day or two for the mechanics to be understood, publicized, etc. There is nothing that guarantees that a random PF group will be any more successful than a random DF group.

You can always use a pre-made party (through PF or otherwise). The only reason to keep it out of DF seems to be to pander to elitists.

Really, if the concern is that new raids are tough and therefore require coordination, SE should introduce a chat capability. That has orders of magnitude more value in learning and clearing new content than just filling a party through PF.

Totally agree.

[Virgal]

SE tested putting harder content in DF at the start with the first 3 EX primals. They found out almost nobody won in random df groups due to lack of cordination and teamwork. So now since then they wait till there is echo and nerfs so there is a much better chance df groups can win.

Don't know what server you played on but i can not remember ever loosing a fight to primal's in the DF when they were 1st released, apart from titan ex a few time, but even that was cleared every 2nd or 3rd group. I Remember passed almost all of coil 1-3 in pieces of dark light before it was released to the duty finder.

[Virgal]

I don't get why everyone here assumes that the majority who use Duty Finder are the most awful players in game, I've been in plenty of Party Finder groups with party members who can't manage anything. Standing in AoEs, poor DPS, don't know the fight at all even though it's clear group, etc. I'd rather take my chances with Duty Finder instead of waiting 20-30 minutes for a Party Finder group to fill up.

Everything but Alexander Savage should be available through DF day one. Don't like it? Use PF, more options are never a bad thing.

That's exactly my thoughts as well, I don't think Alexander Savage should be in the DF, but primals and big raids should be released on day one.

I know it from the fact most people in DF can't handle A4 mechanics.

Every DF i have been in for A4 win's.

[BreathlessTao]

I think the core of the problem is the fact that SE apparently doesn't want to actually define what DF is for. Have been told/shown a few times that there are differences in play style: players in one part of the world go in DF knowing everything and being fully prepared; players in other parts of the world go in DF completely blind and sometimes even not adequately geared; some consider it their personal speedrun tool; some want to actually explore and fully clear dungeons...... And SE doesn't seem to want to take responsiblity one way or another. Which is getting worse and worse as we progress, I believe, because the styles and expectations are getting more and more diverse, and ultimately it's the cause of a lot of debates and general hostility, exactly because they don't pick a side. It's great to have freedom, but dear gods, it's their game, they should clearly define at least the basics. Say that "the Duty Finder is completely random, expect anything and be prepared to agree to anything; you have the Party Finder if you have specific wishes" - and there wouldn't be complaints about not being able to clear a certain duty in DF or not being able to actually get some practice via PF. Or go the other way and say that "people in the Duty Finder expect to clear content in such-and-such ways, so know the fights and prepare for compromises; you have the Party Finder to form random practice groups" - and then maybe not every single PF listing would want people to know the fight backwards at ten times the normal speed.

Because yeah, people expecting all the knowledge of whichever content before you join their party, but there not being an actual way to even get a glimpse of it first... kinda mind-boggling. (Yes, I know, guides and videos, but let's not even get into that; fact is, even those might not be of much help for everyone, some people simply learn much better/faster by actually experiencing things first-hand.)