Dragoon or Monk

[Katchoo]

If you mean by "Fix bard" you actually mean "remove Wanderer's Minuet" that isn't going to happen most likely.
Anyway.

Lol this, brilliant XD

[Daralii]

Actually MNK isn't nearly as screwed over on phase changes as they were in ARR. Dragon Kick and Meditation/Forbidden Chakra are both designed almost entirely to change your downtime during those phases into damage. Really, they thrive ON phase changes; ask any monk who's run Ravana.

I can't speak for dragoon myself though.

In dragoon's case, it depends entirely on how smart you are with BotD. You lose something like ~200 DPS if you don't have access to the 4th combo moves and Geirskogul, so you have to plan around the cooldown, Geirskogul's cost, and transitions.

It's a pain in the ass to manage on some fights, but at least I can be a Litany bot when I screw up.

[spelley]

I can't speak for dragoon myself though.

Dragoons get punished hard for losing BotD. A good Dragoon is often riding a line of about 1-2s "leeway" where they must reapply BotD using their 4th during "dummy" phases. A great Dragoon will know when to hold that Geirskogul and just build buffer on their BotD timer for a mechanic/phase shift. Not that A4 is hard, but knowing for instance approximately WHEN people will get sucked into the tube and knowing not to throw out that Geirskogul until the targets are chosen (so you know you won't be interrupted) is an example. If you just burned a Geirskogul and have 30s+ CD remaining on BotD and somehow get interrupted and fail to reapply BotD, you are in a bad way.

As others have said, DRG brings raid utility in Battle Litany...and Battle Litany. Baaasically Battle Litany. MNK still is good for the INT-down if your group doesn't use a DRK

[Daega]

Only that Tornado Kick has a 1 minute CD and by the time ravana disappears again you don't have it ready.
Monks don't thrive on such things, the only job that is mostly unaffected by it would be Ninja.

So you obviously haven't learned to play your new 3.0 monk. No TK isn't up for every jump but a large majority of them. You can also charge FC and form shifts for almost every long jump. Learning every fight allows you to time and predict when phases change and how to be prepared for them. If you cannot use TK effectively before the jumps then you're doing it wrong.

I personally love TK and FC. Yes FC could use some love and QoL improvements, but these are great abilities and people that QQ and whine about it not being worth it are just bad at adapting, overcoming, and benefiting. I really look forward to these abilities in PvP. They will help with very much needed monk burst damage.

And these "Which is better" posts are getting annoying as well. Read the guides and posts of all the classes to see their strong points, weaknesses, and any other info. Experience them to feel the play style, watch and witness them in action, and talk to them in game. Every class has it's pro's and con's and can be utilized in ANY raid group as long as you learn to play your class efficiently. Find that class that feels right, plays right, and that your enjoy playing.

[Atreides]

stuff.

You're quick with jumping conclusions.
Please don't just start judging people because of opinions, we're here to discuss whether a Dragoon or Monk is more useful in a raid environment.
Right now it would obviously be the Dragoon because of his offensive utility, and I still fail to see how Monk profits in ANY way from downtime.

I am well aware of Chakra stacks and Form Shift and make full use of them, there is still no benifit from downtimes, those skills just help us to make the best of it instead of waiting for our stacks to fall off.
I don't think those skills need any change outside of QoL changes like 5 stacks outside of battle.

I was only saying that Ninja is the least affected by it because he only needs to reaply slashing resist (if the Warrior doesn't already do it) and go bonkers.
Dragoons lose their Blood of the Dragon, Monks their GL3.

Thats a minor issue though, Monk DPS is still up there and I have yet to see anyone outparsing me. (Okay Summoner are beasts in A1-2)
I have yet to see one of those amazing dragoons, so far I only had acceptable ones but none came close to what I hear in the forums.

DPS wise (Outside of dummy parses) none are better but if every melee is in a good spot you take the one with the better utility and thats where Monks currently lose.
While Dragonkick is still an amazing ability because of the Int debuff it's nothing that makes the Monk unique anymore because the Drk can do it too.

[Daega]

..we're here to discuss whether a Dragoon or Monk is more useful in a raid environment.

My question would go down such as:

Which of those two is more helpful in end game raids and pvp.

Raid: Greywolfamakir makes a good point as far as utility.

Easy answer:
Battle Litany > Mantra
Piercing Debuff > Blunt Debuff.

MNK has Int down which is very nice for magical damage. This can also be used by DRK.

PvP: Dragoon has probably had the best burst damage in pvp for a long time now, but there is new pvp coming very soon so "Please look forward to it". With the max level sync'd to 50, Monk has the utility with OIP, silence, mantra, and the special skills.

Which End game armor looks better?

Neither. The Law gear looks horrible IMO. Alex gear is getting better. But there are many many new outfits that work very well for glamour and can make yourself look very unique.
The new AF armor is not out yet besides several trainers or w/e you can see which may be the final say, I don't know this. Either way this is all personal choice and can be looked up on market board or ffxivdb.

And which of these two right now does the highest dps?

Supposedly DRG on dummy's with parse and MNK/NIN slightly behind. But this is not a major factor. Any class can out dps another if they play better than the other. So if you pick DRG and suck at it then it doesn't really matter does it? As a monk I am consistently top dps in almost any group I'm in unless it's aoe. Even then I'm still extremely high with the new skills like Elixir Field and PB Rockbreaker+buffs.

This was actually the OP question. My point still stand that it doesn't matter which you choose. Pick the one that you enjoy and have fun with. You can make ANY class DRG/MNK or other work fantastically if you play it well.

Hope this brings it back on focus.

[Atreides]

Pick the one that you enjoy and have fun with. You can make ANY class DRG/MNK or other work fantastically if you play it well.

See this is a thing we can agree on.

[Viviza]

They do about the same damage output.

Monk is faster with more positionals. Dragoon has more complicated rotations and jumps.

Monk has more defensive utility in a raid (-enemy magic damage, +healing). Dragoon has more offensive utility (+pierce damage, +crit rate).

I don't think the differences are enough that most raid groups or free companies would care. Keep in mind when browsing through the forums that many scenarios are discussed from the perspective of when things are going perfectly, ergo more damage is the only 'useful' utility that can be offered, which is not how things play out in reality where people make mistakes or RNG throws a wrench into things. The benefit of more defensive utility is less obvious, but saving your group from a wipe scenario is very powerful.

[Litegrace]

Honestly, I would just look at both play styles and decide yourself. They are pretty similar (both are melee, with several positional abilities), but feel different. I myself prefer Dragoon because I like the look of the armor/weapons and the jump abilities.

As of right now, I would also say Dragoon is in a better place. They have slightly higher DPS output, a piercing vulnerability, a team critical chance boost, and right now Monk's Dragon Kick makes Dark Knight's Delirium effect completely useless.

With that being said, both are still in great places, and some of that may very well change in the future. A good Dragoon and a good Monk are going to bring just about the same DPS/utility to the team anyway.

[Ipkonfig]

Dragon Kick was invaluable in T13. It was already mentioned in the last live letter that we will have more magic mechanics on the horizon. If your group doesn't have a DRK for Delirium Blade then go with MNK. Battle Litany is great and all for offensive utility but if your group is dead there's no point in having extra crit. Sure once you have content out geared DK/Mantra will be less useful but by then you could have MNK and DRG both leveled and geared and just switch.