How much The Wanderer's Minuet truly adds to damage?

[Sylve]

When I was levelling BRD up and learned WM, I honestly didn't have it up much at all. It was at level 54 when I kept it on. Empyrean Arrow is pretty damn sexy, especially when you use it with Barrage.

I ended up turning it on at 52 and never did turn it back off. Figured i should learn the casts as much as possible for when i get to do other stuff with it

[RiceisNice]

WM is a damage gain at level 60. Before hand, I still feel it at best breaks even with the change to giving it 30% damage boost, unless you preemptively turn it on, use it with empyreal, then it off for the rest of the fight. If you can deal with the excessive animation clipping where your upper body doesn't turn with your legs and the awkwardness of your procs, stick with it. Otherwise I'd recommend MCH since they practically play the same but functions better with their eqvuilant of WM.

[Gamer3427]

As for why he should acknowledge it? Because his OP has been corrected, so there's no point for the thread to exist anymore... especially since there's a hundred other threads on the same topic.

Being "nosy", (in a conversation that took place in a public thread BTW), but you my friend clearly aren't paying attention to what you are talking about. The OP has clearly acknowledged that his original statement in regards to barrage was wrong, though without "flat out" stating it. What your original, (technically second comment in the thread, but the first one in this chain of backlash between you and the OP), comment was on though wasn't directed at his original post. It was directed at his post that he made in response to another user claiming you could now preform a triple critical attack with barrage. And in that post he made, he clearly bolded the portions of the text specifically related to the "crits" part of what he was talking about. You then proceeded to ignore the fact that he typed out the full skill description, which implies though not "outright states" that he saw the portion that said "weapon skill". After which, you two began venemously arguing back and forth due to your rude method of responding to what was already a closed subject, (from the point of view of everyone else in the thread). Also, you claim that the OP was being arrogant to begin with, and yet the only thing he did that was even slightly indicative of such was correcting a small portion of a post made by another user. If that's arrogant, then how exactly can anyone ever disagree with someone without sounding arrogant to you? He did become so in later responses to the volly between you two, but you sir/madam are the one who started being arrogant with your second post, and, (to a lesser extent), with your first post in the thread. You had some valid points in your first post, but ruined them by insulting the OP needlessly. Take a look at the first page. Notice how the post that calls you out for being condescending has more likes than every other post in this thread? There's a reason for that....

(First Post)

LMAO

...


Move along people, OP doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

And yes, there are a million and one threads relating to Bard and WM right now. I'm sick of them too. But you know why this thread has so many comments on it in comparison to all the "I hate WM because it changes Bard" threads? Because this one was legitimately asking how much WM adds, while listing reasons why the OP thought it was actually a damage loss still. His reasoning may have been off, and he should have done more testing, but that doesn't mean this thread is less valid. It has stayed open even after the question had been answered because people still had content to discuss that was related to it, including DPS numbers posted by one user that helped strengthen the argument against the OPs post, as well as give an actual stat for the rest of us. If it had been closed as soon as "his OP has been corrected, so there's no point for the thread to exist anymore", then said information would have been lost. The SE forums aren't a FAQ, they're a discussion. Threads stay alive for as long as the players have something to discuss within them, not just "until the question is answered". The only exception being threads that either go wildly off topic or threads that break the forum rules.....



EDIT: I'm also curious as to why you have two separate characters posting here, unless it's to bypass the post limit?

[Welsper59]

I ended up turning it on at 52 and never did turn it back off. Figured i should learn the casts as much as possible for when i get to do other stuff with it

This is honestly the only reason to use WM before 56. WM is a horrible tool until you get better abilities for it (which really doesn't come into play until at least Iron Jaw... even EA alone doesn't make up for it). You can try to weave it now that it's instant cast, but the 15sec wait till you can turn it off makes that difficult. At 56, WM becomes a lot better to use in matching your output without it due to IJ, but still just comes down to either spending your last moments without it before you become a turret for good at 60 or going head first into the change. Either way, it's generally a bad skill until 56.

[Catwho]

I just have a quick question for any career bards here: is minuet worth it at 52 before I get the abilities that require it or should I wait to unlock it once I'm a high enough level to get them? On topic I'm a mch main so having to deal with cast times wont really bother me too much, and the change to barrage is nice.

Not worth it until you get Empyreal Arrow, really. That's the one skill that really makes it worth staying in the stance. 3 times as much damage as heavy shot every 15 seconds. Add in barrage with damage boosts, and it can hit 9-10 times as much as Heavy Shot.

Iron Jaws is a good tool in your rotation, especially in AOE situations, but I wish it was an instant ability and not on the GCD timer. There are times when I spare the half second to hit something that is off GCD, like Misery's End, and that was enough to let Venomous Bite drop off, making Iron Jaws worthless. Basically you need to cast it when the timer for VB or WB is down to 2 seconds, or else it won't go off in time :/

[Atrious]

It says +30% damage which sounds nice, but it turns
Auto-attacks off
Barrage off (because there are no auto-attacks so there's nothing to triple)
Constant 'cast' interruptions when you are moving out of AOE
Which all slowly add up to lost damage.
Not to mention playing another generic rooted caster is not fun.

you obviously dont know how Barrage works....

[Atrious]

It says 'Multiplies the number of non-critical strikes for a single-target weaponskill by 3. '

Exactly... WEAPON SKILL... lol

[Aethaeryn]

you obviously dont know how Barrage works....

Yeah, that was addressed on page 1 and doesn't need to be mentioned again four pages later.

Exactly... WEAPON SKILL... lol

And here, he was replying to someone's post about how you could triple-crit for 6k, but you cannot crit with barrage (unless it's broken - You can't crit with duality, which is ninja's version of the ability.)

To OP: I felt the same way when I got gauss barrel on Machinist (I have also played bard for a long time), but I'm used to it now after a lot of practice. Some other jobs had some changes that required some practice too. I actually kind of enjoy the play style now, even though I agree that it was a bit of a silly change.

[RiceisNice]

...

GB works better on MCH than WM does for BRD, because their class is designed with it in mind. From animations to skill functionality, it just flows better and doesn't cause any issues for MCH. Bard, you're gonna be clipping your oGCDs very frequently and have a lot of incidents where you overstep your straighter shot procs.

[Welsper59]

GB works better on MCH than WM does for BRD, because their class is designed with it in mind. From animations to skill functionality, it just flows better and doesn't cause any issues for MCH. Bard, you're gonna be clipping your oGCDs very frequently and have a lot of incidents where you overstep your straighter shot procs.

The ogcd's are the primary reason why I dislike the mechanics of WM, or BRD in general right now. They're a major part of BRD DPS, but they're so ****ing clunky to use with the tacked on skill that WM is. Even if you enjoy the current WM BRD, there's no denying how messy the job is with it.