Requesting Data for Parry RATE (not amount mitigated)

[YoloSwaggins]

Snip.

All people are trying to find out is the worth of parry at the moment. Just because parry is only on VIT accessories, doesn't mean we're limited to only that. It could determine whether people want i150 Vit accs melded with STR, or i150 STR accs melded with VIT.

Also for people who aren't going for crafted gear, they don't need to go 5x STR or 5x VIT accessories. When you want to hybrid it can determine which STR accessories you want to mix with the VIT pieces.

[Tam_Hawkins]

@ceosore, parry is also on normal armor and with 3.05 we get additional 190 Equipment which might give us the choice of adding parry or not. Sure there also will be alexander savage but we don't know yet if the esiteric gear can be upgraded (and also we first have to get the raid gear...)

[Marveth]

Except stacking parry barely increase it's proc rate.

[Zfz]

My numbers until someone decided to help me kill the mob...

Test subject: Paladin Lv60
Test target: Clockwork Harvestman Lv59
Gear parry: 530
Gear block: 322

Swings: 2378
Misses: 312 (13.12%)
Hit: 2066 (86.88%)
Block: 457 (22.12%)
Parry: 256 (12.39%)

Taking the base parry rate of 5.865% for 354 parry, that's a 6.52% increase in parry rate for 176 increase in parry rating, giving about 27 parry rating per 1% of parry.

[Phoenicia]

I haven't gone through all the tests past the second half of page 2, but I noticed no one is accounting crits. Crit attacks cannot be blocked or parried. This makes game table precedence as follows:

Miss > Crit > Block > Parry > Hit.

I think you would get more accurate results if you also remove crits from total hits landed.

Tests done were:

1. Use Sheltron, crit lands, Sheltron buff STAYS. Next hit blocked, Sheltron buff goes away.

2. Raw Intuition: Parrying attacks, still getting non-parried crit from the front.

[Zfz]

Just a note. Could people please not litter the thread with opinions unfounded by actual data? This is a fact finding thread, not a place to assert your opinions. If you want to say what is worth or not worth it, please back it up with data and a quantitative analysis of that data.

I haven't gone through all the tests past the second half of page 2, but I noticed no one is accounting crits.

Are you assuming the game does multiple rolls per attack? Because even with a one-roll table, it's possible that all the skills do is filling up the "remaining" attack table with parry. So for example:

• Awareness: cannot be crit. It reduces the Crit section of your attack table to zero.
• Bulwark: add 60% block rate. It expands the Block section by 60%, pushing off firstly any Hit, then any Parry until the full 60% is added.
• Raw Intuition: push off all Hit sections and replace them with Parry.

This would explain how crit doesn't seem to be affected by the various skills, because it cannot be nullified except by Awareness, and the only way to push off Crit is to have such a high level difference that Miss fills almost all of the attack table.

If that is the case, we should actually be calculating our parry rate including all the swings, i.e. including the misses and crits. Else we'd be over-estimating our parry rate. Because as long as there are still normal hits, our parry hasn't filled the attack table.

Also I seem to recall some people say that block eats into parry. But under the one-roll model, as long as you still take any regular hits, your block isn't high enough to actually eat into parry.

So how does FFXIV resolve its combat events, anyway?

[Ultimatecalibur]

Are you assuming the game does multiple rolls per attack? Because even with a one-roll table, it's possible that all the skills do is filling up the "remaining" attack table with parry.

So how does FFXIV resolve its combat events, anyway?

Seems fairly obvious that it is proc/multiple rolls instead of a table because of it being the simplest programing method and that using a table would require recalculating the table between every attack.

Hit roll -> Crit Roll -> Block Roll -> Parry Roll -> Damage Roll if a Physical Attack
Hit Roll -> Crit Roll -> Elemental Resist Roll -> Damage Roll if a Magical Attack

[Zfz]

Seems fairly obvious that it is proc/multiple rolls instead of a table because of it being the simplest programing method and that using a table would require recalculating the table between every attack.

Hit roll -> Crit Roll -> Block Roll -> Parry Roll -> Damage Roll if a Physical Attack
Hit Roll -> Crit Roll -> Elemental Resist Roll -> Damage Roll if a Magical Attack

So there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever to prove that the FFXIV game resolves combat events in one way or the other?

The attack table method doesn't really need recalculations. For example my attack table may look like this:

• Parameters: miss=0.1499, crit=0.05, block=0.22, parry=0.1294
• Roll for attack, gets 0.3215.
• Subtract miss: 0.3215-0.1499=0.1716. Not negative hence not a miss.
• Subtract crit: 0.1716-0.05=0.1216. Not negative hence not a crit.
• Subtract block: 0.1216-0.22=-0.0985. Negative hence it is a block.

Any change to my attack table can be done by adjusting the parameters. For example Awareness will temporarily make my crit parameter zero, which effectively moves block and parry forward. The parameters will just be the exact numbers you're rolling against in the respective rolls in your example.

This is also very simple to program and actually makes the end result match actual probabilities of each of the events.

In single-roll resolution, suppose a miss rate of 15%, crit 5%, block 20% and Parry 10%, then 50% of all attacks should be regular hits. But with multiple rolls, it means that all regular hits are actually the event "not miss && not crit && not block && not parry", giving you the end probability of 0.85*0.95*0.8*0.9=0.5814, i.e. 58%.

If the game is using a multi-roll system, we would have to find the miss and crit rates before we can find the actual parry rate used in the calculation, because our data would only give us the rate at which the attack "wasn't a miss and wasn't a crit and was a parry" (assuming we remove the shield in our tests).

I hope I'm making sense and haven't made some glaring mistake...

[Ultimatecalibur]

So there's absolutely no evidence whatsoever to prove that the FFXIV game resolves combat events in one way or the other?

Firestarter/Thundercloud and Split/Slug shot Procs pretty much state that there are at least 2 rolls made, the fact that we can get multiple individual item drops from kills implies that they are not using tables over multi rolls for drops, and the method that Shelltron operates on in respect to Crits as mentioned would not happen the way it does if it was a table.

This is also very simple to program and actually makes the end result match actual probabilities of each of the events.

Enemies (of different levels at the least) have different accuracies (which can be proven by letting yourself be attack and tracking the amount of misses) and can be individually blinded. You would need to have individual table for each mob and each mob would need to have and maintain an individual table for each target it was attacking or catching in its AoEs. That is a lot of data and table management that would need to be programed in. A stat based multi roll If:Then:Else tree is much simpler to program and far less data intensive.

In single-roll resolution, suppose a miss rate of 15%, crit 5%, block 20% and Parry 10%, then 50% of all attacks should be regular hits. But with multiple rolls, it means that all regular hits are actually the event "not miss && not crit && not block && not parry", giving you the end probability of 0.85*0.95*0.8*0.9=0.5814, i.e. 58%.

I'm not quiet certain of what you are trying to say here. Yes, single-roll resolution makes for prettier statistics, but pretty statistics are not really that important to a computer. I would not be surprised if the RNG roll used a whole number between 0 and 255.

If the game is using a multi-roll system, we would have to find the miss and crit rates before we can find the actual parry rate used in the calculation, because our data would only give us the rate at which the attack "wasn't a miss and wasn't a crit and was a parry" (assuming we remove the shield in our tests).

No, at the most we need to find the number of crits in the hit total (as the misses will not be hits and will already be factored out of the attack total to create the hit total) and remove them to find out the number of attacks that can be blocked/parried.

[Rbstr]

We known forever block is checked before parry. It's clear from parsing that it rolls X% chance to block and if it's unblocked it rolls Y% chance to parry: Higher block rates with similar parry rates clearly diminish the absolute parry rate while the parry rate of unblocked hits remains constant. Furthermore changing parry rate has no effect on the absolute block rate.

Now that Raw Intuition and Shelltron exist we can more clearly see that crits exist at a higher priority yet than blocking or parrying.