Bards - Help me understand

[i2agnarok]

I still think it was lazy of SE to slap on the same playstyle they envisioned for machinist onto bard...because that's what it feels like they did without working out the kinks of it.. but what do I know...

Bard was not designed around cast times it was designed around instant casts with weaving oGCDs.

I think those two sums it up rather neatly. There's also "fun factor," I suppose. Someone in another thread mentioned that he enjoyed "running around like a jackass because [he] could." All the complaining about lost mobility, I just write off personally because I don't think its relevant, but I think the oGCD issue doesn't fit in with the identity of the class. Like these guys said, it feels like they just slapped the MCH ideas onto BRD. I don't think the CONCEPT of the song (castbar, turret) is bad, but because the class is very dependent on oGCDs and procs, that's what causes the clunkiness and that hurts it a bit.

[Aiselia]

According to certain other DPS classes here, we're support, not DPS, and our DPS doesn't matter and nobody's counting on us to do the damage, so if we don't like it, we can just turn it off.

I suppose you could also ask them why they tell us that.

[RiceisNice]

This ^.

With the cast bar it feels awfully clunky and out of place. It definitely takes some getting used to but still there's some issues that should be fixed. Honestly, I can't tell whether using WM gets things done faster or not. On paper there's a DPS increase with it on, but to me it still feels slow. I really wish they'd get rid of the whole cast bar BS, but it's here to stay so I might as well get used to. Or find another DPS class to main...which is what I'm looking for atm.

I still think it was lazy of SE to slap on the same playstyle they envisioned for machinist onto bard...because that's what it feels like they did without working out the kinks of it.. but what do I know...

Honestly I feel like this as well. On paper the idea of having a cast bar to become a stationary dps is fine. Heck, that was the selling point for me when they had shown previews for machinist that they could remain stationary to charge an attack or something. But they ended up giving bard a skill that functions exactly the same and even showcased it in the new job action trailer (whereas they did not showcase gauss barrel for machinist)

The end result is that we have two jobs that play nearly identical, but only one was designed with it in mind.

Edit: And the more I think of it, the more I wonder why MCH gets instant cast on procs. If the idea was that they wanted them to stand still for damage, why is a good chunk of their output still from instant casts? I would've settled with clean and slug shot functioning like empyreal arrow while under GB.

[SayuriHime]

So as I understand what some of you are saying, people are refusing to use Wanderer's out of principle... Out of annoyance and the class feeling clunky? As I understand, Wanderer's is part of the Bard tool kit right now. If it is not satisfying to your play style, why not play something else? Isn't it depressing to play the class if it feels broken to you? Why do you persist? I am not trying to be accusatory, I'm only trying to understand.

[Cinicus]

Trash pulls are one thing in regards to a BRD having to move whereas a primal ex or other EG style boss is where I hear the most complaints. It feels like the devs just wanted to force the job to not be so mobile instead of truly giving us some new "stance" to improve our dps.

[RiceisNice]

So as I understand what some of you are saying, people are refusing to use Wanderer's out of principle... Out of annoyance and the class feeling clunky? As I understand, Wanderer's is part of the Bard tool kit right now. If it is not satisfying to your play style, why not play something else? Isn't it depressing to play the class if it feels broken to you? Why do you persist? I am not trying to be accusatory, I'm only trying to understand.

Which is why I'm a MCH. The sad bottom line is that both classes play or more less the same because of WM and GB, only MCH was built around working with GB so its a bit more natural with the flow. It's not like comparing BLM to SMN, or the three melees.

It doesn't stop there though since the process of leveling a MCH is imo (as a MCH main), incredibly tedious if its not your first 60.

[ruskie]

Well I adapted to WM but as others have said it's clunky as hell. But In most fights I keep pace with the others(as in when mechanics are involved) - the saving grace are our various spikes we have(barraged empy arrow with all buffs on is very nice).

But yeah WM just being tacked on to bard isn't really a well thought out idea.

[PopeHat]

Isn't it depressing to play the class if it feels broken to you? Why do you persist? I am not trying to be accusatory, I'm only trying to understand.

No, it sounds like you're trying to make a statement against the bards that refuse to use minuet out of principle. I use minuet and stance weave and have managed to put up solid DPS, but I hate the job. I have never enjoyed BLM, and I've never enjoyed SMN. The people I see that hate the new buff the most are the people that have dedicated most of their playtime to mastering bard, a lot of those people are now disillusioned and some are moving to other classes. The end effect is that you're going to have less bards playing the game and the ones that do are going to be newer to the class.

So enjoy your dungeon runs with bottom tier bards without minuet on, I'll be the ninja in your party jumping around the monsters like a fool because I can.

[Fyce]

No, it sounds like you're trying to make a statement against the bards that refuse to use minuet out of principle. I use minuet and stance weave and have managed to put up solid DPS, but I hate the job. I have never enjoyed BLM, and I've never enjoyed SMN. The people I see that hate the new buff the most are the people that have dedicated most of their playtime to mastering bard, a lot of those people are now disillusioned and some are moving to other classes. The end effect is that you're going to have less bards playing the game and the ones that do are going to be newer to the class.

So enjoy your dungeon runs with bottom tier bards without minuet on, I'll be the ninja in your party jumping around the monsters like a fool because I can.

That only applies to people with BRD main and only BRD. If you were playing any other ranged job with cast times, then playing BRD with WM would be fine since you would already be familiar with cast times.
I played a lot of WHM in 2.x and switched to SMN now, so when I tried a lv60 BRD on my gf's account just to test it, I was completly fine with it. She even told me "you don't even play BRD and you're already better than me with WM...".
Well, yeah. I'm used to cast times so WM isn't a big deal for me.

I guess the issue lies in people's habits. If WM was a Lv10 skill, there wouldn't be any problem with it. But since it's a new skill, it obviously impact long term BRD the most.
On the other hand, people playing BRD as an alt job might be completly fine with it, and even perform better than 2.x main BRD because of that reason.

Since the change is so big, speaking of "mastering BRD" doesn't make any sense now, because everyone is on the same foot right now. It's just a question of "can you/do you want to change your habits or not ?".

[RiceisNice]

....

The other end of the spectrum is that full-time bard mains are the ones that can feel how fragmented bard's gameplay is with WM. It's not cast times itself the problem, its the problem that comes from having a cast time.

Then you have people who leveled up machinist first then level up bard and immediately notice that the two more-or-less play identically the same because of WM/GB, so we don't even have class diversity when it comes to gameplay for ranged physical (think BLM/SMN, melees, or healers in how they approach with their role), except only one of the two classes was built from the ground up with cast times in mind and doesn't feel as awkward.