3.05 Job Balance Request Megathread

[Ryaz]

Can we not include another mch change thread in here. The suggestions presented are downright ignorant in terms of game balance. If you make buffs on the lines of some of the suggestions here, MCH will destroy everything on dps.

And I'm sure there will be plenty of other changes asked by other classes that would overpower them as well. It's a suggestion thread, which I doubt SE would follow anyway. This also isn't a MCH only suggestion thread. All classes are welcome to participate. And we aren't exactly destroying people. I get beaten by good, equally geared drgs, mnks, and blms fairly regularly.

[HairyRoger]

The same suggestions were presented by the same people multiple times over. I am all for suggestions and constructive feedback, but asking for more everything is not that. I bet other classes have the same, but I am a MCH and I can speak from MCH experience. I don't have that experience with other classes and thus not going to argue stuff I don't know enough about.

Quality of life changes are fine, 45sec cd on reload is also a change that would be good due to how cds line up. I find myself matching the damage on the classes you mentioned very often. The ones that are really good and geared will pull ahead by a bit, ofc. This is about the support / dmg philosophy of the game. I expected MCH to be weaker than what it is, to be honest. If I would put my finger on something it would be how hard you are punished for mistakes on the MCH.

[Ryaz]

Yeah, MCH can be REALLY hard to play. Most classes you can recover from a mistake pretty easily, but with MCH, you rely so much on cooldowns aligning, especially with Wildfire, that one mistake can throw your entire game off. It's one of things I love and hate about the class. It takes skill to play properly, but you're punished pretty hard for any mistake and if you do make a mistake, expect to drop a place or two on the dps charts because of it. It's one of the beefs that I legitimately have with the class. "Whoops... Hit one wrong button during all those AoEs and mechanic changes... Well, we'll lop off 150 dps as punishment. Sucks to be you." Even a DRG or ninja playing less than optimally can recover and won't lose that much dps. We basically have to play perfectly to even keep up with a decently played DRG, ninja or monk.

[Xenitan]

Infinite Flare a la 2.2 wouldn't even be good any more and the change in the way the stacks work is causing more problems than it solves including:

1) Do you know what happens if you transpose too early after flaring because of lag? You lose all your mana, you stay in Astral Fire III and you have to wait 10 seconds before you can even regenerate mana. Every class that says "messing this up is too punishing" is hilarious. How about "if you mess this up, you lose all your TP and can't regenerate it for 10 seconds".
2) There's like a fifteen year delay between casting Fire III and being able to cast FIre IV. I cast Fire III yesterday and I just now got my Astral Fire stacks and I'm offline. Ok it's actually like 0.6 seconds. That still feels like an eternity and it adds up over the course of an encounter. Because of lag.
3) STOP TESTING BLACK MAGES ON JP SERVERS. No class is as sensitive to lag as Black Mages. Bards/Machinists might have encountered this problem by now, but if you're lagging enough, if you go Skill->OGCD->Skill sometimes it can go Skill->Ski-OGCD NO SKILL FOR YOU-> Recasting the skill. When you have to keep two buffs up, every microsecond between using a skill and the buff actually coming on your bar feels like a nightmare.
4) Something something thunder is useless something something. I don't care. Take steps to make Black Mages less sensitive to lag. It didn't matter when the spell we spammed refreshed the buff we wanted to keep up, but jeez it does now.

Honestly, I love the class. But it gets absolutely hammered by lag. Ninjas talk about how annoying that extra few seconds for Mudras are (less so now that they have Huton renewal) but they never have "I used Trick Attack, whoops I lagged, whoops Suiton fell off, whoops, now Trick/Sneak attack is on cooldown" which is what happens with Enochian. No melee has "I dumped my TP on this skill. Whoops, I lagged, whoops, now I'm locked out of regenerating TP for 10 seconds." And it's all tied to those fractions of seconds between my computer talking and your computer listening.

[bbkkristian]

DRG: Tie Wheeling Thrust to Chaos Thrust Combo and tie Fang and Claw to Full Thrust Combo.

Optional: Make one of those two moves different and unique.

[m3eansean]

complaints about Enochian due to server lag, says it's worse than Mudra lag

Not quite what happens with Mudras the way you describe it. I have casted suiton, seen the water funnel come up on the screen and TA activate, only to have the server say, oh wait, no you didn't, how about a Raiton instead? Oh wait, you're attacking now, how about bunny instead of that Raiton? Now you get no mudra for another 15 seconds and you have lost a ton of dps.

Also other times where you enter Mudra and the button turns grey for like 3 seconds, preventing you from attacking or pressing any other buttons, because if you do, the server will bunny you because you attacked while it was thinking about what Mudra you entered.

There is also lag with Armor Crush (huton refresh) where if you use it with 1-2 seconds left, the server decides you don't get those 30 extra seconds of Huton, despite the attack connecting and visibly doing damage. Then you watch it disbelief as the last 2 seconds of your Huton ticks away.

[Leonus]

Not quite what happens with Mudras the way you describe it. I have casted suiton, seen the water funnel come up on the screen and TA activate, only to have the server say, oh wait, no you didn't, how about a Raiton instead? Oh wait, you're attacking now, how about bunny instead of that Raiton? Now you get no mudra for another 15 seconds and you have lost a ton of dps.

Also other times where you enter Mudra and the button turns grey for like 3 seconds, preventing you from attacking or pressing any other buttons, because if you do, the server will bunny you because you attacked while it was thinking about what Mudra you entered.

@Xenitan

This... this is mudra lag. This is the reason people pay for a VPN network to play nin. Mudra lag can single-handly destroy nin dps.

From the sound of it, sounds like blms are having a tough time too, but please do not perpetuate that many things (if anything) is worse than bad ping for Mudras (or lag spikes). It's enough to make grown men cry.

[Gaiussenpai]

Make botd increase the potency of dfd but not life surge since they want the signature move jump to be our highest potency attack if comboed with ps/botd.

[Lilyth]

Imo the suggested change to PB (to keep current form active upon expiration) is a little more complicated than that. During Perfect Balance you don't have a specific form, you have all of them. So there's really no current form to be kept.

[Xenitan]

There is also lag with Armor Crush (huton refresh) where if you use it with 1-2 seconds left, the server decides you don't get those 30 extra seconds of Huton, despite the attack connecting and visibly doing damage.

Pretty much the exact same thing can happen to mages. You can lose stacks and it sucks and then you have to do less DPS until you can get them back again. I've also had the "you did damage, it's in the combat log, but the game said "meh" situation.

I never said Black Mages had it worse than ninjas. From sheer volume, ninjas have it way worse. I may have been passionate, and it might have come off that way, but all I'm saying is that Black Mages have their own ways lag screws with them, similar to ninjas, in ways that ultimately are different from what happens to ninjas and it's pretty frustrating. The Flare thing is especially bad. The problem is that it used to be good, and then they changed it for reasons that no longer apply.

Imagine, say, Ninjas had a way to attack during mudras, but (for the sake of this thought experiment) only if the game somehow could see the future and knew you were casting Huton. And so they fix it, as they probably should have for 2.0, but in doing so, they made the mudra lag much worse. Then Heavensward comes around and you get armor crush so you're never really using Huton unless something went horribly wrong (I'm much less familiar with 3.0 ninjas, but I'm guessing that's probably the case). That change to mudras seems much more silly then, huh?