Thread: Monk 3.0 CHAKRA UNLEASHED

Originally Posted by Ossom

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With the amount of guides that do demo - snap - snap compared to snap - snap - demo it's really hard to try and get people to change. Pre-buff the difference in potency could be made up by the increased amount of dot ticks, as you started 1 1/2 dot tick earlier and the fight finished just as demo dropped you would gain with the demo first and vice versa for snap. Which was why there was no one rotation to rule them all, but with the changes to demo, snap - snap - demo is stronger even with 1 1/2 extra tick lost. Of course this still varies from fight to fight, A5S especially due to damage reduction on the boss.

Originally Posted by Krindor

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Demo Snap Snap is definitely stronger as an opener in A5s, because you can get 2 GCDs on the boss before he goes big. Actually Snap Demo Snap would probably be best, but Snap Snap Demo is most definitely the worst you are correct.

That said, I don't see how you really get any extra ticks, as far as I can tell, people who do Demo Snap Snap, end up clipping their first Demo a bit anyways. So their first Demo has less ticks, they might have more Demo ticks throughout the fight, but they might waste more GCDs doing more Demolishes for only like 1-2 Ticks more, which is another loss. I'm not exactly sure though because its been a while since I looked at Demo > Snap > Snap as a opener.

Originally Posted by Ossom

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Haven't been looking into demo first either, but yeah they do clip their first demo tick unless they fracture, and only way they can fracture without losing DK/TS is with something like 950 SkS. But not including that, it's more that if they start with demo it will tick for 1 1/2 tick and being reaplied 1 1/2 tick earlier, so say that the fight ends with the last tick of a demolition of demo first, while in snap first it's then going to be 1 1/2 tick that doesn't get to tick, which is a loss of 75 potency essentially making up the difference between demo first and snap first.

Originally Posted by Ossom

The buff to Demo is actually another argument for why you shouldn't open with Demolish on your opener, its a nerf.

Snap Snap Demo = 180(Snap) + 180*1.1(Snap) + 420*1.2(Demo) = 882 Potency

Demo Snap Snap = 420(Demo If you get the positional, 380 otherwise) + 180*1.1 + 180*1.2 = 834 (With Positional) 794 (Without Positional)

Been thinking on this a bit.

Unless I'm insane, an unbuffed demolish that misses its positional bonus is worth 380 potency. A fully buffed demolish with all the fixins is worth roughly 659 potency. A lukewarm demolish, which double snap openers give, will be multiplied by 1.35 (2 stacks of GL + B4B + FoF) is worth 567 potency.

If you run the numbers, it's better to have two demolishes in your opener always, just like its better to have two sets of DoTS under buffs just like bards. Demolish is just too gosh darn good to not have two of, even if the DoT ticks aren't affected by blunt resistance down. it's the highest potency GCD, and baby you'd be crazy to not want more of them under hypercharge and trick attack and battle litany. In Demolish openers unless they're started right on the server tick, the last tick of the opening Demolish is almost always cut off, dropping the potency to 330, but the second one will always tick 7 times totaling 330 + 659 = 989 total demolish potency in a standard 20 second blood for blood duration.

But what if we decided to get absolutely heretical?

We know that demolish outstrips snap punch in tooltip potency at 3 ticks, but snap has the edge because it benefits more from dragon kick. But in Snap openers, that wittle baby demolish is around 8 seconds remaining by the time you're swinging around to True Strike even at 800+ skill speed. You've already dealt more tooltip potency than Snap punch and you're likely to get another tick unless you're supremely unlucky. That's 4 ticks of baby demolish + its multiplied strike potency, now what I suggest you do here will get me banished for life: Those last 8 seconds of Demolish? Screw 'em. TA is still up, HC is still up. Smash that mf Demolish button again and get the fully buffed 659 potency big daddy for a total of 1024 Demo potency per opener.

So yes, double Snap openers are worth it, but only if you clip your demolish and only for a 35 potency gain. I wouldn't sell my grandma for it, and you could probably get more out of your opener by moving shoulder tackle to a place where it's fully buffed or downloading a VPN to eliminate latency.

Originally Posted by PFM

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A little hard to follow along with all this.

That said, the Snap > Snap > Demo Opener has your first Demo Buffed by GL2 and your second Demo buffed by IR/B4B/Potion/GL3. Neither of them get clipped.