Monk: Fists of Earth change request

[Zamii]

there's 2 possible that i can immediately think of, one would be to add say a 5% attack speed buff to fist of wind, we wouldnt want to be in it permanetly because TP would drain out in a heartbeat, and rotation would become messy, but it would be good for rebuilding stacks quickly?
the other would be to make fist of wind remove positional requirements on skills, so for something similar to ravana with the all seeing sides, we go into fist of wind temporarily to avoid the damage penalty of missing positional, but do less than optimal damage if we stayed in it constantly.


either way, fist of earth/fire feel fine to me, the only thing that needs to be changed imo is fist of wind

[Sylve]

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I just want Wind Fists to make us Auto Attack like that one PGL during the early (25 or 30, i cant remember which) class story quests. (Can't remember if it was during the GLA or PGL quests)
Of course, lower the damage dealt so its basically a visual change or damage increase on par with Fire Fists.

Cos the animation for that was amazing. Doubt it'd EVER happen, but it would be amazing to let us do that on our Monks lol.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I .. What?
Why would you want this? Why on Eorzea would you want to turn a straight DD Job into some form of creepy tank hybrid?
We do not need multirole Jobs. (SCH/SMN Do not count, you can't be both at once)
Thats why we have the Job system. To give each Job a well defined role that it can specialize in.

If they're going to do ANYTHING to Fists of Earth, I'd much rather they did the following:
-Reduces Damage Taken by 10%
-Treat the Targets Front as both Flank and Rear. Only Front will grant positional bonuses.

What does this do? Lets us solo at pretty much full DPS while making it worthless in Party content, as you would never want to or need to be in front of the boss except in very specific circumstances.
Sick and tired of hitting mobs for 100 potency when Soloing. The positional requirements make for an interesting and complex boss rotation while making soloing incredibly annoying.

While we're at it, lets change Fists of Wind to provide a percentile bonus to Skill Speed instead of movement speed. Give us the choice between a small bonus to damage or a small bonus to attack speed.

I'm not. I am just wanting to add an option for it. Giving the class a bit more options is a bad thing?

Tanking, isn't something they should be focused on, just something they could be able to do if your party can't find a tank or your tank leaves. It could also be useful in a situation where your tank dies.

[Sylve]

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So you want it as an "option" then say its only for an extreme emergency?

My suggestion would provide more options than turning the skill into a "Stars have aligned in the worst way possible and now survive an extra hit".
Most of a Tanks mitigation comes from their Defense, of which MNKs have bugger all.
More than that, most dangerous bosses have a 'tankbuster' type skill, like Curators Sanctification which has clipped my MCH for 7k~ damage when a Tank turned him at a bad time.
Given that you would have 11k hp as a MNK, You'd get creamed before the healer could react to the sudden loss of life while theyre also trying to Raise the tank. Not to mention ho fast you'd die if you were already missing HP before the Tank died.

It'd be one hell of an unnecessary change to the skill. Also, its not as if we lack for Defensive abilities in an emergency anyway, FoE+KF+FF can keep you alive long enough for a recovery anyway.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

So you want it as an "option" then say its only for an extreme emergency?

My suggestion would provide more options than turning the skill into a "Stars have aligned in the worst way possible and now survive an extra hit".
Most of a Tanks mitigation comes from their Defense, of which MNKs have bugger all.
More than that, most dangerous bosses have a 'tankbuster' type skill, like Curators Sanctification which has clipped my MCH for 7k~ damage when a Tank turned him at a bad time.
Given that you would have 11k hp as a MNK, You'd get creamed before the healer could react to the sudden loss of life while theyre also trying to Raise the tank. Not to mention ho fast you'd die if you were already missing HP before the Tank died.

It'd be one hell of an unnecessary change to the skill. Also, its not as if we lack for Defensive abilities in an emergency anyway, FoE+KF+FF can keep you alive long enough for a recovery anyway.

Then, your entire first paragraph of your argument is unnecessary. The second part proves that it can be viable and used quite a bit. If I played a monk I think it would be fun party tanking dungeons when you don't have a tank around, or helping new players.

I figure, this would be used after a tank-buster hit and killed the tank so you can turn it on and put on your temps and immediately grab aggro over the Black Mage or healers since you already have a lot of DPS aggro.

It would still be used a lot more then the scholars "kill your pet" ability. Lol.

[Sylve]

[B]-

If i wanted to Tank, I'd play a Tank job. Changing FoE like that would only make it useless entirely, its currently mildly useful in solo because we lack high potency hits and fights tend to drag out until we get everything rolling.
Its also the first Fist Skill we learn as a PGL. At level 22, your Earth Fists would be entirely useless and no Monk would ever even have it on their bars. You would iterally just be taking the skill away from Solo Monks and we need HELP in solo, not nerfs to satisfy some weird fantasy you have about a Job you clearly don't play.

Monks are Damage Dealers. Its our Role and we're damned good at it, we do not need to become pseudo-tank hybrids just so you can pretend you saved a wipe.
Even a BLM can "save" a potential wipe with Sprint, Manawall etc to give the Healer time to raise and repair.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

If i wanted to Tank, I'd play a Tank job. Changing FoE like that would only make it useless entirely, its currently mildly useful in solo because we lack high potency hits and fights tend to drag out until we get everything rolling.
Its also the first Fist Skill we learn as a PGL. At level 22, your Earth Fists would be entirely useless and no Monk would ever even have it on their bars. You would iterally just be taking the skill away from Solo Monks and we need HELP in solo, not nerfs to satisfy some weird fantasy you have about a Job you clearly don't play.

Monks are Damage Dealers. Its our Role and we're damned good at it, we do not need to become pseudo-tank hybrids just so you can pretend you saved a wipe.
Even a BLM can "save" a potential wipe with Sprint, Manawall etc to give the Healer time to raise and repair.

I changed it to Wind if you read or actually read some of what I said. However, I can see that you have a very "narrow" view on how your class should work. It is quite sad, however that mindset has ruined the fun of many games for me. No class in my opinion should be restricted to having to do one thing. There should be spells that change your play-style and allow you to do multiple things if you want to. Granted, they won't be as good as the main options but they still might be a fun way to play.

Next time you speak your mind though, actually read what they say. Thank you. =)

I for one, when I hear monk I do also think of a damage dealer and not a tank. However, I for one see them as both. However, I don't see them as Main tanks. I do see them however being able to tank easy content, like Neverreap if they wished.

[lawlHT]

You don't need classes able to perform multiple roles in this game because players can already job change. What you're suggesting just gives players an excuse to play a job in a suboptimal role to increase their special snowflake status.

Wanna tank? Change to a tank class. This isn't WoW where you're locked into one class your entire career

[Nektulos-Tuor]

You don't need classes able to perform multiple roles in this game because players can already job change. What you're suggesting just gives players an excuse to play a job in a suboptimal role to increase their special snowflake status.

Wanna tank? Change to a tank class. This isn't WoW where you're locked into one class your entire career

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rever%21/page2

I think this type of thing would be very good for this game, Lawl! =D

[Saseal]

You don't need classes able to perform multiple roles in this game because players can already job change. What you're suggesting just gives players an excuse to play a job in a suboptimal role to increase their special snowflake status.

Wanna tank? Change to a tank class. This isn't WoW where you're locked into one class your entire career

While I'm not a MNK main - I've used Fists of Earth as a tanking stance.... I don't think there's anything wrong with using it for that. I would NOT want to use it as a tanking stance for all content - especially raids - at all times, but it's fine for when you really need a few more moments of survival, AoE defense, or slowly progressing certain parts of a dungeon while waiting for a tank to come along. No, I don't play MNK to tank, I play MNK to DPS - but that's no reason not to give everything I could possible give when it's all available to me. I don't understand the "Not my job, not my problem, I'm going to ignore these skills" mentality.

Honestly, I've been in parties, on MNK, where the tank has either ditched before we even left the starting point, D/Ced and poofed, or died in a mob/boss gone wrong - thats where I throw Fists of Earth on, and throw my CDs (with staggered groupings) - Internal Release (if not already on GCD) + Bloodbath + Foresight.... Feather + Flurry + Mantra (if I didn't blow it trying to help keep the tank alive already), etcetc... and act like a temporary tank. Whether it be because we were tired of standing there and waiting and I pull small mobs with shoulder tackle + Arm of the Destroyer to tag, Throw cross classed MRD/LNC defensive CDs, and try to spam RockBreaker if there are more than one.... IE, act as a tank. Or, if shit hit the fan and I'm trying to give the healer some time to catch up and revive the tank before the snot is beaten out of them (IE, sacrifice that the situation may be able to be turned around).

While I wouldn't want Earth to be OP and don't mind that my DPS is forced to be down due to front-facing, I wouldn't mind it to be a tad more buffed :x
But that said, I really think Wind needs more attention.... only time I ever use it is to slowly inch ahead of the rest of the pack between raids, or if running back to an area after a boss/overpulledmob wipe. :| In that sense, it's just a gimmicky skill.