Confused about DRK complaints

[Ultimatecalibur]

That's a terrible idea. If you're doing a big pull, Blood Price almost guarantees a near infinite supply of MP. It should be up from the moment you start a pull until the moment you end it.

Sections of several High level dungeons are just not designed for it. When you have a 15+ second runs between trash groups (The start of Satasha HM is a pretty bad offender in my opinion) in some dungeons and several of the first group of trash opt to use AoEs instead of auto-attacks you can end up with cases were Blood Price falls off during the pull and Darkside drained off about 1/3rd of your MP to no real effect before you started Unleashing.

If anything a non-Darksided Unleash on the first group and then popping Darkside + Blood Price before Unleashing on the final group seems to be the smarter way.

Option D: OT and run out of TP instead of Mana.

This is a problem the Paladin also has, but should be rectifiable once Ninjas, Bards and Machinists can see TP in 3.1.

[Violette]

It's not that mana management is difficult, it's that DRK's skillset works against itself and punishes the player for managing resources.

Option A: Spam Syphon combos to get back your mana at a slow rate - Possibly losing threat in a raid scenario.
Option B: Use hate combo and save mana, sacrificing valuable dps in a raid environment.
Option C: Drop Grit and waste a cooldown to pull your mana back from the depths with Blood Weapon.(Even then casting grit is 1/4 of your mana.)
Option D: OT and run out of TP instead of Mana.

Option E: Re-roll Warrior/Paladin.

If only Dark Arts was worth the use outside of Abyssal Drain, Dark Mind or Power Slash q.q

[Hundred]

^ I don't see the qualm. Wrath stacks are just Inner Beast, Steel Cyclone and Unchained.
Abandon stacks are just Fell Cleave and Decimate.

Aka: A mitigation option (inner beast/Dark Mind), Aoe (Steel Cyclone, Abyssal Drain), a long CD damage buff (Unchained), A nuke (Fell CLeave/Carve & Spit), and an aoe nuke (Decimate/Dark Passenger). Granted there is also Dark Dance, Power Slash, and Soul Eater combo but whatever.

Oh and you don't put on Blood Price at the start of a pull. The whole point of Blood Price is to replenish mana, if you haven't spent any yet then you're just wasting the duration and with the abilities propensity to over-heal your mana essentially the lower you can bring it out the better.

[bettomendes]

(I didn't want to make yet another thread about DRKs and since i'm also confused about some things, i thought i'd just post here)

I'm a DRK 60, ilvl 180, vit accessories, leveled through dungeons fine without much problem with aggro, mana management and such.
The other day i was tanking high level roulette and got Stone Vigil HM. Since i'm used to do this as WAR (my main) and the healer (SCH) was my husband who i trust and plays literally by my side, i decided to pull the entire first section up to that arena with the big Watch Wyvern and some little Dragonfly Hunters.

Thing is: my HP dropped really fast and and we end up dead before a single mob died before us. The dps were black mage and bard, got them from queue, didn't check their gear before the pull, but i don't think it would make much of a difference because of how quick i died. The mobs were hitting like 10, 20% my hp each.

Had grit, darkside and blood price on and popped some defensive cooldowns (don't remember which ones, honestly, because it was just a simple routine thing we all do automatically).
Other examples i can give are Tamtara HM first section, Snowcloak, Amdapor Keep HM... I can keep up fine with big pulls like these as a Warrior, but as DRK i have to do lesser pulls or things don't go so well.

Anyone have experience with big pulls like these as a Dark Knight? Am I missing something, it's a balance problem or it's just how the job is supposed to be?

[VisRalis]

It's not that mana management is difficult, it's that DRK's skillset works against itself and punishes the player for managing resources.

Option A: Spam Syphon combos to get back your mana at a slow rate - Possibly losing threat in a raid scenario.
Option B: Use hate combo and save mana, sacrificing valuable dps in a raid environment.
Option C: Drop Grit and waste a cooldown to pull your mana back from the depths with Blood Weapon.(Even then casting grit is 1/4 of your mana.)
Option D: OT and run out of TP instead of Mana.

All too true =x

A- lost it several times. BLMs don't like using Quelling Strikes and likes to laugh.
B- Actually losing MP using DA-hate combo. Struggling to keep hate without it and MP goes bust super fast.
C- did that once and consequences were losing hate and mp both. Never doing it again outside of light parties.
D- might as well just change to DPS. Atleast some DPS get invigorate =.=

DRK is crappiest tool in the shed.

[Bustaperizm]

Option A: Spam Syphon combos to get back your mana at a slow rate - Possibly losing threat in a raid scenario.
Option B: Use hate combo and save mana, sacrificing valuable dps in a raid environment.
Option C: Drop Grit and waste a cooldown to pull your mana back from the depths
Option D: OT and run out of TP instead of Mana.

A. Dark Arts you poweslash when you pull. You'll be so far ahead noone will be able to catch up short of you dieing or going afk.
B. People getting close? Since you've been spamming syphon combos you have mana to DA another powerslash (heck do two if you like)
C. Low on mana? Drop darkside. Your mana will go back up pretty quickly without the constant drain. [ why is your first reaction to drop grit?]
D. This Boohoo TP thing needs to end. Its not as bad as people are claiming. They arent going to give us tp management like a dps cause we arent dps. So temper that rotation a little.

[PotatoWafflez]

Anyone have experience with big pulls like these as a Dark Knight? Am I missing something, it's a balance problem or it's just how the job is supposed to be?

I had similar thing happen to me the other day in longstop HM, Dark Knight pulled all the way up to ramp as per pretty standard longstop pull and then proceeded to drop like crazy I got clipped by something somehow lost out on 2 casts due to that and a AoE and bam down he went this is after I saved him not shortly after the pull with bene because it was impossible to get him back up above 50% with divine seal and he was losing hp every cure 2, granted I hadn't been healing like that for a while so I probably messed up somewhere in there as well but it definitely felt like he was bleeding out faster than I could patch him up for whatever reason. On paper though it shouldn't have felt that different from a PLD pull from what I gather.

I think in my case it was more my bad being out of practice and a few mistakes but it does seem to feel off for some reason I just can't figure out why, I'm not a very good base line for determining that though as I tank a lot more than I heal 4 mans. :P

[Lorielle]

Stuff

A: Warrior and Paladin would like a word with you.
B: The purpose was to get MP back to get back on the DPS train, not to use it to get back the Enmity you lost trying to regain MP.
C: A viable option, but when Darkside SHOULD be 100% uptime, why do we need to drop this just to conserve mana? DPS Loss doing this.
D: I really want to know what you're doing to keep your TP up then. Cause we have no way of actually managing it outside of just standing there. :l

[Kiteless]

A. Dark Arts you poweslash when you pull. You'll be so far ahead noone will be able to catch up short of you dieing or going afk.

Threat modifier for DA Powerslash isn't actually that much higher than the normal version, if I remember correctly. There are probably better ways to spend that valuable MP.

B. People getting close? Since you've been spamming syphon combos you have mana to DA another powerslash (heck do two if you like)

And start the cycle of mediocrity all over again.

C. Low on mana? Drop darkside. Your mana will go back up pretty quickly without the constant drain. [ why is your first reaction to drop grit?]

No. This is not a viable option. Stop pretending like it is. Only bad DRKs drop Darkside in battle.

D. This Boohoo TP thing needs to end. Its not as bad as people are claiming. They arent going to give us tp management like a dps cause we arent dps. So temper that rotation a little.

It is that bad. And spamming Unmend is not a solution.

[Bustaperizm]

Bad drks drop darkside. Yes. Trashy darks drop grit when its unsafe to do so just so they can get mana back when they have the tools to have infinite mana already.

In fact. Id argue dropping darkside brings your mp back faster with syphon strike allowing you to put your cheaper darkside back on. Your plan is to pop blood weapon and hope the weaponskill spam can build enough mp to over come the darkside mana drain and THEN put back on the more expensive grit? No wonder youre complaining.

I didnt provide numbers for a DA poweslash. Neither did you have anything to refute it. Im telling you. Da poweslash to start and you can de rotate and DA SE a few times before you have to worry about it again.

You may have quoted my replies to your complaints, but you havent said anything but repeat your initial whines.