Parry is useless. Can we change it?

[Altena]

The issue with Parry is that it's a defensive stat that only works for physical based damage, when most of the heavier hitting skills in this game are magical.
On top of that, the job that is meant to utilize Parry (DRK) have a poor Parry skill (Dark Dance, 30%) that is less potent than DRG's version (Keen Flurry, 80%)

This is a derail here but they should ditch MRD as DRK's sub and replace it with LNC (would solve both the TP issue and gives them access to a strong parry skill). While they do it, get rid of Dark Dance and replace it with something that actually makes an impact.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

I was kinda bored and didn't feel like leveling.

354 Parry(Base)

Tsanahale: 1,201 Swings, 1,097 Hits, 104 Misses, 62 parries, 0 block(no shield)
( 62 parries / 1,097 hits ) * 100 = 5.652% parry rate

456 Parry
Tsanahale: 376 Swings, 349 Hits, 27 Misses, 18 Parries, 0 block(no shield)
oops I killed it
Tsanahale #2: 561 Swings, 507 hits, 54 misses, 38 parries, 0 block(no shield)

Tsanahle Total: 937 Swings, 856 Hits, 81 Misses, 56 parries, 0 block(o shield)
( 56 parries / 856 hits ) * 100 = 6.542% parry rate

Parry Rate Dif: 6.542% - 5.652% = 0.89%
Parry Dif: 456-354 = 102

+102 parry over base resulted in a parry rate increase of 0.89%

So apparently by this guys math.

100 parry = 0.887% Parry chance.

Which means Parry is, by all means now. Completely worthless. Good day.

[Einheri]

Fully agree that parry can be removed. They could change parry to bonus defense so it effects both physical and magic. Until then it's always a benefit to go det/crit once acc and skillspeed thresholds are met.

[Pylfer]

Here's what you do. You take PLD and leave it the same, you take WAR and leave it the same, you take DRK and reduce the efficacy of Dark Dance a little while making it retain its current effect through the use of Dark Arts. Then you make the stat weight of Parry a little higher for DRK so that they can more consistently get Parries off and turn the stat into a more reliable form of mitigation for them. PLDs have uber cool downs and WAR has some serious cooldowns with a 100% parry ability. I think just tweaking the way that Parry effects DRK specifically would make Parry a much more desired stat for the specific class.

[Giantbane]

I was kinda bored and didn't feel like leveling.

354 Parry(Base)

Tsanahale: 1,201 Swings, 1,097 Hits, 104 Misses, 62 parries, 0 block(no shield)
( 62 parries / 1,097 hits ) * 100 = 5.652% parry rate

456 Parry
Tsanahale: 376 Swings, 349 Hits, 27 Misses, 18 Parries, 0 block(no shield)
oops I killed it
Tsanahale #2: 561 Swings, 507 hits, 54 misses, 38 parries, 0 block(no shield)

Tsanahle Total: 937 Swings, 856 Hits, 81 Misses, 56 parries, 0 block(o shield)
( 56 parries / 856 hits ) * 100 = 6.542% parry rate

Parry Rate Dif: 6.542% - 5.652% = 0.89%
Parry Dif: 456-354 = 102

+102 parry over base resulted in a parry rate increase of 0.89%

So apparently by this guys math.

100 parry = 0.887% Parry chance.

Which means Parry is, by all means now. Completely worthless. Good day.

I really hope that's wrong somehow, that's awful

[Kiteless]

...Which is the point we've been making all along.

Even if the RNG based reduction brought by parry were useful on a conceptual level (which is questionable to begin with), the hard values themselves are still completely worthless.

[Izsha]

I really hope that's wrong somehow, that's awful

Actually that makes 100 parry equal 0.873% higher proc rate.

In other words it takes (estimated) 114.6 parry to raise parry rate by 1%. As parry is a 20% flat reduction, it takes 5% parry to rate to equal 1% avg mitigation (phy attacks only).

Based on the test, it takes roughly 573 parry to reduce incoming (phy only, and hitting you from the front) by ONE PERCENT.

Now let's pretend that every single solitary piece of i190 war gear had max parry in every slot. Hive battle axe and full alex gear, pretending that the highest secondary stat on every piece was parry. 83 on axe, 77 on body and legs, 47 on hands/ft/head and 36 on belt and all accs (and an imaginary 2nd 190 ring).

That 100% maxed out 190 parry set has 594 parry. Remember it takes 573 to get 1% mitigation (5% proc rate and 20% mitigation on proc).

Congrats. Gearing balls ti the wall parry in every sslot using the highest ilvl gear in the game and imagining they all had parry max on them you mitigate....

Wait for it.......

1.037% more damage than wearing ZERO PARRY.

Maxed out parry gear that doesn't even exist reduces damage by 1% over having absolutely no parry at all on gear.

Parry sucks. It's worthless. Period. The end.

GOOD DAY SIR!

[Ashkendor]

Maxed out parry gear that doesn't even exist reduces damage by 1% over having absolutely no parry at all on gear.

Pretty much exactly why I swapped my Parry for Det/Crit and never looked back.

Too much investment, not enough return.

[Ceodore]

Actually that makes 100 parry equal 0.873% higher proc rate.

In other words it takes (estimated) 114.6 parry to raise parry rate by 1%. As parry is a 20% flat reduction, it takes 5% parry to rate to equal 1% avg mitigation (phy attacks only).

Based on the test, it takes roughly 573 parry to reduce incoming (phy only, and hitting you from the front) by ONE PERCENT.

Now let's pretend that every single solitary piece of i190 war gear had max parry in every slot. Hive battle axe and full alex gear, pretending that the highest secondary stat on every piece was parry. 83 on axe, 77 on body and legs, 47 on hands/ft/head and 36 on belt and all accs (and an imaginary 2nd 190 ring).

That 100% maxed out 190 parry set has 594 parry. Remember it takes 573 to get 1% mitigation (5% proc rate and 20% mitigation on proc).

Congrats. Gearing balls ti the wall parry in every sslot using the highest ilvl gear in the game and imagining they all had parry max on them you mitigate....

Wait for it.......

1.037% more damage than wearing ZERO PARRY.

Maxed out parry gear that doesn't even exist reduces damage by 1% over having absolutely no parry at all on gear.

Parry sucks. It's worthless. Period. The end.

GOOD DAY SIR!

First of all, you're assuming that there is no minimum Parry Rate. However, by Nekt's own math, there is a minimum Parry Rate that comes stock of almost 2.5%. According to his math, 102 parry = about .887% parry. If you then subtract all his parry at the same rate, or rate being x=.887/102, you actually come to a base of about 2.5% parry rate even if your Parry is 0. So, assuming a rate of 100 parry = .873% increase in parry rate, you actually come to 5% parry rate at 312 Parry, not 573. At 573 parry, you would have a parry rate of 7.5% about

However, that's besides the point. Parry as it is is fairly weak. However, that doesn't mean that it needs some major rework, as all the secondaries are actually fairly weak anyways as far as any form of mitigation is concerned. This is to help tanks build towards damage more too. I don't want to personally see a big overhaul that makes Parry a huge necessity for tanks anyways because then it would no longer allow for any sort of class freedom. I'm quite happy dropping into STR trinkets as often as possible and losing my parry. It doesn't bother me. I can, however, see the necessity for some kind of buff to the secondary, but it should be something minor, which is why I have repeatedly suggested it should increase both rate and mitigation. Something along the lines of say maybe getting +1% more parry mitigation for every 20 parry you get. It isn't a big buff, and wouldn't make the secondary required, however, it would make it suck a little less that it doesn't feel like a complete waste like it does now. You would get more benefit towards your mitigation this way too when you use your VIT trinkets if necessary, but not feel like you lost a ton of mitigation if you switch into Strength, which would make both trinkets still quite viable.

Edit: Nekt, I commend you on your research. Well done. I was quite sure that the rate was not 1 parry = anything like .003, as you've shown, it's closer to something like .01 like I kind of thought it was. Well done, and much respect.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

First of all, you're assuming that there is no minimum Parry Rate. However, by Nekt's own math, there is a minimum Parry Rate that comes stock of almost 2.5%. According to his math, 102 parry = about .887% parry. If you then subtract all his parry at the same rate, or rate being x=.887/102, you actually come to a base of about 2.5% parry rate even if your Parry is 0. So, assuming a rate of 100 parry = .873% increase in parry rate, you actually come to 5% parry rate at 312 Parry, not 573. At 573 parry, you would have a parry rate of 7.5%.

However, that's besides the point. Parry as it is is fairly weak. However, that doesn't mean that it needs some major rework, as all the secondaries are actually fairly weak anyways as far as any form of mitigation is concerned. This is to help tanks build towards damage more too. I don't want to personally see a big overhaul that makes Parry a huge necessity for tanks anyways because then it would no longer allow for any sort of class freedom. I'm quite happy dropping into STR trinkets as often as possible and losing my parry. It doesn't bother me. I can, however, see the necessity for some kind of buff to the secondary, but it should be something minor, which is why I have repeatedly suggested it should increase both rate and mitigation. Something along the lines of say maybe getting +1% more parry mitigation for every 20 parry you get. It isn't a big buff, and wouldn't make the secondary required, however, it would make it suck a little less that it doesn't feel like a complete waste like it does now. You would get more benefit towards your mitigation this way too when you use your VIT trinkets if necessary, but not feel like you lost a ton of mitigation if you switch into Strength, which would make both trinkets still quite viable.

So 500 parry is not even 1% damage reduction...

No, determination and critical rate actually can raise your stats significantly.

If 600ish parry was 10% damage reduction (calculated) I would agree with you. However It is not. It does not equal the other stats at all!

To even be close to the other stats, parry would have to be "TEN" times better then it is now.


I feel like 600 Critical Hit Rate is like 15-17% Critical Chance. Which is significant.

((I have no numbers to prove that, however that is what it feels like.))