Ninja: Heaven-Sword (And Beyond)

[RobbieH]

This impact you speak of has already been factored in when Dervy calculated the stat weights

I linked this above: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...mage_formulae/

Also these are 3.4 stat weights for NIN:

WD: 15.195
DEX: 1.000
DET: 0.210
CRT: 0.282
SS: 0.141

[Krindor]

I linked this above: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...mage_formulae/

Also these are 3.4 stat weights for NIN:

If you're linking the formulas, actually try and use them, if you calculate the increase in crit damage between 900 and 1300 you go from, 1.58 to 1.67. 1.67/1.58 = 1.057 or a 5.7% increase in damage, which if using your 5.7k example comes out at a total of 6025. The crit damage by itself isn't a huge boost, it's only when you pair crit chance with crit damage that they become a huge increase, this can be seen if you graph the gains in DPS for crit, it's a quadratic growth until you hit a certain %, this is 70% crit chance for MNK, 80% for DRG and 90% for NIN due to IR/BL.

[RobbieH]

If you're linking the formulas, actually try and use them, if you calculate the increase in crit damage between 900 and 1300 you go from, 1.58 to 1.67. 1.67/1.58 = 1.057 or a 5.7% increase in damage, which if using your 5.7k example comes out at a total of 6025. The crit damage by itself isn't a huge boost, it's only when you pair crit chance with crit damage that they become a huge increase, this can be seen if you graph the gains in DPS for crit, it's a quadratic growth until you hit a certain %, this is 70% crit chance for MNK, 80% for DRG and 90% for NIN due to IR/BL.

Hence why i mentioned i don't know if it was boosted by Pot or other buffs.

Still 6025 is wrong and the formula might be outdated which can be seen in the video i linked.

And why did you decide to skip this which was the comment actually towards you?

It's not a bad example.

I suppose the 8k crit was with Pot and full buffs, not sure.

As for 6k that's low for 1300 crit.

Check this video at 2:57: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbv5IjAu9RA

6.5K without any skill buff or pot (food only), 1275 crit.

[Krindor]

Hence why i mentioned i don't know if it was boosted by Pot or other buffs.

Still 6025 is wrong and the formula might be outdated which can be seen in the video i linked.

And why did you decide to skip this which was the comment actually towards you?

If the crit damage formula was off by so much it would've been noticed earlier, it would also mean that the stat weight of crit would be a lot higher than what it currently is.

Because there's multiple variables that could affect the result and there's no info about the stat difference, what was the dex, WD, Det. Also please don't post a one time happening and have that as proof. Even for the same player there's a 10% difference between the maximum and minimum of what they can hit. Let's say 5.7k is your average at 900, then the max a person with the same stats at 1300 crit would hit for 6330, add a difference in WD, Dex and det and 6.5k isn't unusual. Like I say to anyone who claims that there's an issue with a formula, if you think there's something wrong with formulas, test multiple data points with about 100 crits with the same ability per data point.

[RobbieH]

If the crit damage formula was off by so much it would've been noticed earlier, it would also mean that the stat weight of crit would be a lot higher than what it currently is.

Because there's multiple variables that could affect the result and there's no info about the stat difference, what was the dex, WD, Det. Also please don't post a one time happening and have that as proof. Even for the same player there's a 10% difference between the maximum and minimum of what they can hit. Let's say 5.7k is your average at 900, then the max a person with the same stats at 1300 crit would hit for 6330, add a difference in WD, Dex and det and 6.5k isn't unusual. Like I say to anyone who claims that there's an issue with a formula, if you think there's something wrong with formulas, test multiple data points with about 100 crits with the same ability per data point.

I'm certain it's higher than when the formula Dervy posted was made, but it's not just Crit stat that increases Crit Damage alone, Main Stat, Det and WD also affect it.

You can't make calculations based on very old modifiers and dif stat weights, i just posted the link as a proof that Crit doesn't just increase Crit chance but also scales Crit damage.

Ariyala seems to have updated the site, but i think it before it was 0.21
Current NIN Crit: CRT: 0.282

The WD Modifier was also increased along Det Modifier.

EDIT: Found 3.2 Stat weights: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...blmmchhealers/

See the difference? You can't really rely on an old formula (04 Jul 2015), even if you did the modifier is already different as seen in 3.2 weights.

EDIT 2: If you know the site to check player DPS, go check for example Savage A11S and check top Ninja, for example, 8.2k Trick attack, Balance, Battle Litany, B4B, IR, Pot

Now, i don't know what were the Stats that player had back then, but it was made Oct 4th, therefor he wasn't that high in ilvl (for Dex) and probably had like ilvl250 and a few. Yes, it was buffed, which is why i also said i didn't know if the other 8k was buffed.

[Krindor]

snip

Umm, you do realise that the formulas for 3.2 and 3.4 were the same? The reason for WD and Dets increased values were due to the increase in main stat. Also you do realise I posted the stat weights for NIN before Dervy this patch and if you look at it there's barely any difference and that has more to do with the way we get them? If there were any changes to the crit formulas I would probably be one of the first people to know, especially if it's Dervy.

Saw now that Ariyala had updated the weights, they were still the old ones for me due to being saved locally since before, resetting the values changed it to the current ones.

EDIT:
Here's the formula that has been used since Dervy came out with the weights in 3.0, that is for 3.0, 3.2 and 3.4:
((1+(WeaponDamage)*0.0432544)*((Dexterity)*0.1027246)*(1+(Determination)/7290)-2)
For a crit it's ((1+(WeaponDamage)*0.0432544)*((Strength)*0.1027246)*(1+(Determination)/7290)-2)*(((Crit-354)/(858*5))+1.45)
The resulting damage is +-5% of that.

Do note that there's a small error of about 1-3 Damage as with the limited tools we have and SEs retarded ways it's impossible to get a 100% accurate formula.

[RobbieH]

Umm, you do realise that the formulas for 3.2 and 3.4 were the same? The reason for WD and Dets increased values were due to the increase in main stat. Also you do realise I posted the stat weights for NIN before Dervy this patch and if you look at it there's barely any difference and that has more to do with the way we get them? If there were any changes to the crit formulas I would probably be one of the first people to know, especially if it's Dervy.

Saw now that Ariyala had updated the weights, they were still the old ones for me due to being saved locally since before, resetting the values changed it to the current ones.

EDIT:
Here's the formula that has been used since Dervy came out with the weights in 3.0, that is for 3.0, 3.2 and 3.4:
((1+(WeaponDamage)*0.0432544)*((Dexterity)*0.1027246)*(1+(Determination)/7290)-2)
For a crit it's ((1+(WeaponDamage)*0.0432544)*((Strength)*0.1027246)*(1+(Determination)/7290)-2)*(((Crit-354)/(858*5))+1.45)
The resulting damage is +-5% of that.

Do note that there's a small error of about 1-3 Damage as with the limited tools we have and SEs retarded ways it's impossible to get a 100% accurate formula.

Sorry i don't follow this thread for very long so i couldn't possibly see you posting the weights, i thank you for contributing to the community like that, i really do, and i hope you can keep doing it, since Dervy isn't here anymore we're kinda limited.

If you go back a few pages you'll see i had trouble with the A12S dummy and gave opener to see if people saw something wrong with it.

i later did the test twice on the Dummy, one i finished with 6% health left, and another i finish with 3% Health left, the 6% i had 19% crit chance, the 3% i had 21% crit chance (obviously the total damage increase vary depending if the crit was on Auto Attack/skills/dots).

So i came to the conclusion the crit could be the culprit, so i proceed to check some videos and dps "places".

So i noticed a big difference in how much my crits hit vs how other people crits hit (i always check the buffs too), hence why i started to mention Crit also scales Crit damage and that some people crit for higher than i did.

Sadly i don't have enough gil to buy the HQ crafted gear needed to go to 1100 crit so i could test myself, or i'd have done that and wouldn't bother people here.

Anyway something has to be wrong, i don't think for example, TA crits swing for that much, the video i posted he crit for 6.5k (sadly was the only TA crit i noticed so i mentioned it) with only food, no B4B, IR or other buffs.

I did get past 6k TA myself, but i was boosted by Battle Litany while doing Faust Z.

[Krindor]

snip

I didn't post them here, as tbh I was just too lazy to find this thread as it's usually on like page 4 or 5. They were posted on reddit so it's not weird if you didn't see them unless you actively visit reddit. Crit does increase damage and chance but not too the large extent that you posted, which was why I corrected it.

Mostly when you look at others and it's higher it's either due to stats, just 1 WD is enough for a 0.9% gain, add dex into that and you get something like 1.5% just from 5 ilvls on a weapon. Add that you have for example bad luck with your hits on the dummy and end up the below average spectrum of the damage, if you are say 1% under average, 400 crit and 5 ilvl lower weapon than somone else who is hitting in the upper 4%, suddenly your TA that is hitting 5.7k which is lower than the other person that is hitting 6.4k. This is why I usually take people posting things from videos with a grain of salt, there's probably a majority that's cherry picked and shouldn't be used to judge your own DPS.

[Losstarot]

What should be the optimal Sks?
If there is any that is

[Krindor]

What should be the optimal Sks?
If there is any that is

More or less as low as possible, ninja has very few abilities who gain from higher skill speed, in comparison to MNK who has traited IR that at a higher level of SS get's an additional hit and DRG who has traited BfB and also their timings to balance. There's also the case that mudras clip more and more at higher SS which results in an even less value.