Machinist superior then bards?

[juntaru]

I'd always consider an end-gamer opinion on his class, than the one of someone who just played it for fun.

Especially concerning endgame balance.

Just saying.

And to get back on topic :
Brd and Mch provides differents tools. Mch seems more flexible on MP/TP regen (instant turrets help a lot), while brd can more easily help the raid magical dps. We will have to see exactly how the savage mode goes to see if one brings somthing more needed to one and each fight.

[JohnMccain]

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Where did I say BRD was okay lol? I am all for quality of life changes for the job. The job feels extremely clunky now and it feels like SE wasn't looking at the previous abilities/traits in their kit when designing the 3.0 skills.

What I am saying is you can't say someone doesn't know how a 2.0 mechanic works because they never mained the job.

[LunarEmerald]

Bard and Machinist do about the same dps. Although I'd argue that mistakes will hurt Bard's less than Machinist's.
Machinist has more options for moving while under their stance but requires greater concentration. Equal I guess?
Both Bard and Machinist recover the same amount of MP. 265 normal and 530 with battle voice/hypercharge
Hypercharge lasts half the duration of battle voice but the cooldown is 120 seconds instead of 300. Overall, Machinist can recover more MP but Bard is better at recovering it in bursts.
Bard increases magical damage by 5/15% more than Machinist but can't increase physical damage. Bard is better to bring along if the majority of the dps are casters, Machinist otherwise.
Bard has to sacrifice MP to boost the damage of others. Machinist does not. They can boost damage for free every 120 seconds.
Bard can boost magical damage for ~72 seconds from full MP. Machinist can only boost magical/physical damage for ~24 seconds. For casters, Bard stomps all over Machinist.
Machinist can help reduce damage with dismantle and rend mind, Bard cannot. They can also inflict heavy, silence, knock back, bind and stun while Bard can only silence and bind.
They both have the same HP, MP, DEF and MDEF.
Bard can self-heal with second wind for ~1800 every 120 seconds. A Machinist can't outside of items. This makes Machinist a bit more squishy

In the big picture, Machinist is a bit better since they bring more utility but they're by far the two most similar jobs in the game right now.

[Greywolfamakir]

they're by far the two most similar jobs in the game right now.

I agree with You at this point.

Machinist is a bit better since they bring more utility and TP isn't an issue for them.

I disagree with You at this point, TP is a issue for MCH and for BRD during long non stop encounters or against the dummie.

Heavy Shot: 60 TP
Split Shot: 70 TP
Slug Shot 60 TP
Clean Shot: 60 TP

Straight Shot: 70 TP
Hot Shot: 80 TP
Lead Shot: 80 TP

Iron Jaws: 60 TP (For both DoTs)

I play both, BRD and MCH a lot and I can say confidently than both, BRD and MCH are at the same point about management of TP. MCH gets 50 TP every 30 seconds, but without Quick Reload MCH is out of TP faster than BRD. Quick Reload brings TP because is needed for MCH.

[HairyRoger]

It is worth adding that the magical reduction is a small aoe field that is stationary. Not a massive issue, but when the mob moves it sure is. Burst regen is better than long drawn out regen, in my opinion.

Machinist can help reduce damage with dismantle and rend mind, Bard cannot. They can also inflict heavy, silence, knock back, bind and stun while Bard can only silence and bind. Machinist is a bit better since they bring more utility

Dismantle / rend mind share cd. MCH has the upper hand, but it is a 5% 10sec duration on a 90 second cd ability. It really is not all that great. It helps.

More utility is also based on the actual use of said utility. Stun / silence share cd. Stun is melee range on top of that. Knock back does not work in most content that actually matters. Bind and heavy share cd, where as bind hardly ever seem to work.

[LeonarRimon]

It is worth adding that the magical reduction is a small aoe field that is stationary. Not a massive issue, but when the mob moves it sure is. Burst regen is better than long drawn out regen, in my opinion.

Snip....

I prefer MCH regen cause most times I can position my turret closer to the people who need it while not being out of position in some fights. I find the regen to be very large as well, large enough to cover most circular arenas.

Dismantle/Rend I feel will only shine in the upper limits for hardcore raids I remember monk dragon kick helped a lot in T13. Though this can be reapplied but helped mostly with transitions.

- In A4 there is a stun mechanic when a leg releases steam (but can be handled by a lot of other classes)
- In A2 you can knock back bombs (again situtational if Gobber not doing their job)
- In A3 you can stun adds.

So I feel like the utility is just at least for this "Story Mode" Alexander.

[HairyRoger]

large enough to cover most circular arenas.

I agree, but I was talking about the magic damage amplifier. The aoe damage field is not that big.

There are a few places you can use some of the utility, yes, but as you said it is not really needed in a lot of cases. The fact that we use knock and silence in the rotation also makes stun kind of out of the picture unless it is crucial. I just feel amount of utility should be measured in how much utility you have that will actually make a difference. Dismantle/rend will be helpful later on, but it is probably best stacked with other dmg reductions, such as dragon kick(it stacks, right?) and you can only use one of the two every 90 seconds.

The fact that stun is something a lot of other classes have adds to this. We will most likely not be the ones stunning stuff unless, as said, crucial.

[Haxetc]

It is worth adding that the magical reduction is a small aoe field that is stationary. Not a massive issue, but when the mob moves it sure is. Burst regen is better than long drawn out regen, in my opinion.

What do you mean by "burst?"?

[HairyRoger]

What do you mean by "burst?"?

I was referring to LunarEmeralds statement that bard can recover in burst. Battle voice lasting longer than hypercharge, meaning that you can recover more in that amount of time than we would in the same amount of time, when using hypercharge. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Haxetc]

I was referring to LunarEmeralds statement that bard can recover in burst. Battle voice lasting longer than hypercharge, meaning that you can recover more in that amount of time than we would in the same amount of time, when using hypercharge. Correct me if I am wrong.

Yes BV lasts longer but 15 v 30 seconds at the same potency is meh and you get Hypercharge back much faster than a BRD gets BV. As far as burst, the 2 jobs fulfill the same role. Utility of song v turret goes to the MCH sure to being able to just redeploy if a mob moves and hit promotion. If a BRD has to dodge and get out of range of the person they're singing for they're SOL. Also think of the DPS loss. BRD is actually losing 15% of its DPS as well as 3 seconds of cast time maybe more of you get interrupted where as a MCH is losing maybe 10% with a 0 cast time oGCD to deploy is turret for DPS or utility.