[Feedback] Character Development and Builds

[Jonnycbad]

No character development. This is not WoW, we can change jobs freely in this mmo, therefore no customization.

No skill trees, because if they were ever implemented, people would math out the most optimal skill tree for each class, and then people start selectively asking for certain builds for their raids and exclude other, inferior builds.

[Jonnycbad]

Ffxi had merits/job points and subjob system which allowed huge flexibility and unique gameplay tactics....unfortunately, this led to huge problems with job balance for the last 12 years and had things like white mages tanking the hardest bosses by exploiting ninja spells or bard songs, etc. ffxiv uses a trinity system where there's verrrrrrrry little flexibility but balance is so much better because of it. If you want customization and flexibility, prepare to sacrifice balance and harmony.

[Jandor]

It's not like builds would mess up the DF either. Take Paladin for example, you give it a core of tank skills that it always has but then you can build it's optional stuff around say shields, heals, debuffs, buffs, damage, etc.

It's a tank, it's tank kit is balanced to perfection, it's skill trees are not mathed out because which build you want will change depending on the other 7 people in your group.

[Nurvus]

Guys, there's a popular game that came years before FFXIV that launched with 9 classes, 3 specs per class and at least 2 viable ways of competitively playing each spec.
Nowadays it has 11 classes, 3-4 specs per class and 3+ viable ways of competitively playing each spec.
So it launched with over 50 and today has over 100 ways to competitively play a character.

No one here is asking that much for FFXIV, but there is currently only 1 way to competitively play each Job. That means 13 total builds in the game.
This game has a lot of stuff to "unlock", but it would benefit greatly from having variety for those that unlocked everything.

And unlike some are trying to claim, it is not hard to balance a few variations in builds.

[uryu17]

Happy I found this thread. We need skill trees period. every good MMO has one. Wow, Everquest 2, swtor, blade and soul,lol. It works and anyone who says it doesn't is lying to themselves, don't know whaT there talking about or don't like change. I'm not saying it has to be just like a skill tree or a trait tree, call it whatever the heck you like lol. For those who say it's too late, thats not true... Everquest 2 got it introduced to the game in an expansion, it also helped the developers later on in the games life.

[uryu17]

If I'm a Bard and decide I would like to change my spec in order to do more dps and get the same result(my way not SE way, set rotation) , I don't see the problem. I would like, no I would love to have more control or rather freedom of how I play my character.I think a lot of people would love this but I to am not sure if this is something SE would consider.If they do say yeah we will not see it for a while hehe. I hope you keep these type of post coming maybe they will see it and change their though process.

[Nurvus]

Happy I found this thread. We need skill trees period. every good MMO has one. Wow, Everquest 2, swtor, blade and soul,lol. It works and anyone who says it doesn't is lying to themselves, don't know whaT there talking about or don't like change. I'm not saying it has to be just like a skill tree or a trait tree, call it whatever the heck you like lol. For those who say it's too late, thats not true... Everquest 2 got it introduced to the game in an expansion, it also helped the developers later on in the games life.

Sorry although customization is needed, it has nothing to do with the addition of skill trees.
Even Diablo 3 has more customization than SWTOR.
WoW's current Talent system offers more customization than Skill Trees ever did.
Skill trees inevitably offer a lot of fake choices.

Final Fantasy can have all the customization it needs without cloning WoW.

[uryu17]

Sorry although customization is needed, it has nothing to do with the addition of skill trees.
Even Diablo 3 has more customization than SWTOR.
WoW's current Talent system offers more customization than Skill Trees ever did.
Skill trees inevitably offer a lot of fake choices.

Final Fantasy can have all the customization it needs without cloning WoW.

Why do you guys keep comparing skill trees to wow? I have never played wow lol. Ok I tried it and the art style was lame so I left. Everquest 2 did a great job with the skill trees and traits. Also I'm not saying copy aNd paste Or anything. I'm saying put something in that will allow us to play the same class but with different choices. Skill tree from my experience would be the best choice. One other game that did a really really good job with skill tree is eso.

[Nurvus]

Why do you guys keep comparing skill trees to wow? I have never played wow lol. Ok I tried it and the art style was lame so I left. Everquest 2 did a great job with the skill trees and traits. Also I'm not saying copy aNd paste Or anything. I'm saying put something in that will allow us to play the same class but with different choices. Skill tree from my experience would be the best choice. One other game that did a really really good job with skill tree is eso.

Because the class design and talent trees of SWTOR - a game you did mention - are a poor carbon copy of TBC WoW.
And I mentioned WoW because it uses a non-skill tree system that I consider superior to skill trees.
Skill trees offer fake choices, a properly tiered system offers real choices.

No character development. This is not WoW, we can change jobs freely in this mmo, therefore no customization.

No skill trees, because if they were ever implemented, people would math out the most optimal skill tree for each class, and then people start selectively asking for certain builds for their raids and exclude other, inferior builds.

WoW has 11 classes only.
However, those classes provide 36 specs (Fury Warrior and Frost DK have 2 different playstyles each), and with their talent system, you actually have over 100 competitive end game builds - and I'm talking about builds that are effectively close enough to each other than apart from a few encounter gimmicks, are all viable.

This means:
1 - you get to "bring the player, not the class".
2 - you get variety

FFXIV has 13 jobs, and 1 build per job, and you are saying that being able to have those 13 builds on one character is excuse to having 0 customization?
I'm not asking 100+ endgame builds, but 13?

I refuse to accept that 13 builds is all that SE can "manage" to "balance", when Blizzard can do it reasonably with 100+.
And even if top progress guilds were to cherry pick specific builds for each encounter, it still means there are builds to cherry pick from, and it still means the other 90% of the playerbase has lots of variety, attracting more players, keeping more players entertained (and for a longer period of time), while gaining quality (not losing).

[uryu17]

Allowing them to imp-lament and update your Characters abilities and traits without having to increase the level cap, do to the numbers getting to high and too long to calculate thus slowing the level increase and increasing the lifespan of the game, while making the game more enjoyable. For those that say you will have a set skill tree I have yet to find a game where you needed a set skill tree In order to get into a party, also how are they going to know what you speced for. They can't see your UI...we have rotations that people think are the best already, but I have yet to be told " you need to have this specific rotation or you can't join the party." People simply want you to be able to complete the content they don't care how you do it.