Am I the only one? Heavensward ending spoiler.

[StrejdaTom]

Hello,
I just wanted to know if I am the only one who thinks that they should keep the rest of Scions dead? Not saying that I didnt like them at all (I loved Papalymo and Yda) but I think that for example Haurchefants dead (I know he isnt Scion) was the worst and the best moment of FFXIV story because for the first time I felt some sympathy with NPC.

I am not saying that this game should turn into Game of thrones but.. we have Nanamo back, Yshtola back and again we have happy ending like in fairy tail while the ending of 2.55 was so strong.

I believe that letting some NPCs we have known die and keeping them dead is actually really good for the story even when it makes us angry.

Sorry if this doesnt fit into lore section, but I didnt want to put it into general discussion..

[Alberel]

Trouble is none of the scions actually died... The only character that actually died was Nanamo and they used a really bad plot twist to reveal it was just a fake out.

At this point it is more a matter of when we'll find the other scions, rather than if. It seems Thancred ended up wherever Y'Shtola was trying to teleport them both to. Yda and Papalymo we know little about but we do know they escaped the city. Minfillia was sent on some special task by Hydaelyn so she's obviously still out there somewhere too.

In terms of good story writing, yes, I would have much preferred it if Nanamo had stayed dead or if they'd permanently killed another character off. Unfortunately there's no way the scions won't all be coming back together at this point. At least we got a few deaths in 3.0 though.

[Anonymoose]

I didnt want to put it into general discussion...

Everything the lore touches, that is our kingdom.
General Discussion is the shadowy place where you must never go, Strejda.

keeping them dead is actually really good for the story even when it makes us angry.
I am not saying that this game should turn into Game of thrones but.. we have Nanamo back

Don't even get me started on Nanamo; I could ramble for days, lol. I'll settle for a couple paragraphs and get it out of my system:

It was an intricate, sensible, and well crafted plot arc, and future players will be able to glide right from one patch to the other without it seeming like a tacky move. However, we ended season one with that death and carried it through promotional materials that twisted the knife, and in the end it was just an artificially inflated sense of scale and everything wrapped itself up in quick trip back to the city-states. SE wrote an emotional check they didn't ever plan on cashing to shock us and get us more excited for a new expansion.

The rest of the expansion was amazing, so (in comparison) it's only a minor scuff, but I admit that I'm a little miffed at the "death-is-cheap" trope being used in the Season 1 Finale just to be undone in the Season 2 Premier like a bad TV show.

Still, I find some comfort in that we're back on track to see Nanamo's transformation from child puppet ruler to the true legacy of the Ul Dynasty. And at least I got the "what have I done" moment from Iceheart and the apology from Merlwyb. Without those, a lot more would have started to unravel, structurally, in my head. As I said, it's a very minor scuff on a very well-polished scenario, but...

I just wanted to know if I am the only one who thinks that they should keep the rest of Scions dead?

The Scions never really got deaths, just cliffhangers, so I don't mind much either way. I figured they'd be with us to the end and inspire a whole new set of stories to be inflated over the centuries from "some people that stood up for us and won" to the new legends of Zodiac Braves and the Archons of the Twelve and all that. I assumed we'd see them suffer from start to finish and that we'd get that emotion from their humanity, instead.

To be honest, I fully expected Minfilia to die; nothing says End of Season One like the death of the mentor. I don't know what to expect, now.

Yshtola back and again we have happy ending like in fairy tail while the ending of 2.55 was so strong.

I just hope that we don't find all of them by suddenly realizing that we need them more than we thought, making a more concerted effort to find them and, oh, good there they are. Did we even ask the Elementals to check if Thancred was in there, too, after we found Yshtola's trace went Shroudward? I think I'll be fine as long as they don't get all campy with plot-specific amnesia and/or turning evil and remembering their goodness at a crucial and convenient moment unless it's a really well-polished use of those tropes, lol.

[DarkDedede]

Did we even ask the Elementals to check if Thancred was in there, too, after we found Yshtola's trace went Shroudward?

If I remember correctly, they would have needed some sort of blood relative, so the Elementals would have some sort of reference. Do we even know anything of Thancred's family?

[Anonymoose]

If I remember correctly, they would have needed some sort of blood relative, so the Elementals would have some sort of reference. Do we even know anything of Thancred's family?

Not that I know of; I just thought it was funny that we glossed right over it, lol. I'm sure they'd just already accepted that it was too much of a long-shot and decided to work with that they had to start out. Awfully convenient, though.

[Dererk]

Really it made more sense for Nanamo not to be dead I was skeptical from 2.51 that she was dead because if she really wer dead then Ul Dah would have been in utter chaos.

[Cilia]

Should they? That's a very difficult question to ask.

The primary reason they were "killed off," I think, was to break ties to the 1.x - 2.x cast and give the 3.0 cast a chance to shine. Without the Scions to guide us we had to struggle and suffer to find our way. If we had them around still, it'd just be like 2.x with Minfilia yelling "Go do X because reasons, Warrior of Light!"

(In theory. In reality, we just took orders from Alphinaud instead of Minfilia.)

Do I think dead NPCs should stay dead...? Of course I do; the resolution of the Ul'dahn coup was one of the weakest parts of the 3.0 story, in my opinion. Yes, we never personally checked Nanamo's vitals, but when someone looks like they're choking and then collapses, I'm not inclined to believe that was a [kupo!] sleeping drug. Plus, if Lolorito really was more concerned with preserving the Ul'dahn social and political systems, why did he sic the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves on us after his plan had already gone off without a hitch?! (In fact, Teledji unwittingly helped him with it!)

...

... personal grievances aside, the ultimate fate of the Scions remains inconclusive. I'd wager Yda and Papalymo somehow snuck out of Ul'dah. Thancred got warped with Y'shtola's Flow, so nobody knows where he is or if he's even on the physical plane. Minfilia ran back into a collapsed tunnel...

... /sigh.

[saber_alter]

Should they? That's a very difficult question to ask.

The primary reason they were "killed off," I think, was to break ties to the 1.x - 2.x cast and give the 3.0 cast a chance to shine. Without the Scions to guide us we had to struggle and suffer to find our way. If we had them around still, it'd just be like 2.x with Minfilia yelling "Go do X because reasons, Warrior of Light!"

(In theory. In reality, we just took orders from Alphinaud instead of Minfilia.)

agreed, but i read it as more of alphinuad saying "we should probably do this!" and my character saying "K." T3T

Do I think dead NPCs should stay dead...? Of course I do; the resolution of the Ul'dahn coup was one of the weakest parts of the 3.0 story, in my opinion.

was weak, still glad i got to kick Ilberd's arse.

Yes, we never personally checked Nanamo's vitals, but when someone looks like they're choking and then collapses, I'm not inclined to believe that was a [kupo!] sleeping drug.

some poisons are actually tailored to do that...maybe some of it went down the wrong pipe?

Plus, if Lolorito really was more concerned with preserving the Ul'dahn social and political systems, why did he sic the Brass Blades and Crystal Braves on us after his plan had already gone off without a hitch?! (In fact, Teledji unwittingly helped him with it!)

something tells me Lolorito wasn't actually responsible for that part, or that he was trying to make sure the situation didn't get too out of hand. remember that he is working with the braves. not directly controlling him. Ilberd probably was the one responsible for having the braves attack us.

...

... personal grievances aside, the ultimate fate of the Scions remains inconclusive. I'd wager Yda and Papalymo somehow snuck out of Ul'dah. Thancred got warped with Y'shtola's Flow, so nobody knows where he is or if he's even on the physical plane. Minfilia ran back into a collapsed tunnel...

... /sigh.

either that or minfilia managed to pull Thanred's sorry body out of the rubble. not sure where she went after.

i'm still wondering what happened to the non-key scions. like F'lhaminn, Hoary boulder, and his conjurer friend...

[Cilia]

snip

While you do agree to everything everyone only suggests you do, that's just an illusion of choice. The story won't progress unless you do what they tell you to do, just like you can't progress on Azys Lla until you agree to the Guidance Node's ToS ("Yes" and "I... suppose?"). I'm fine with that, but the point is someone else is still calling the shots.

I suppose it's possible, though careful study of chemistry and biology, to make a poison that would choke someone to unconsciousness but not kill them. The only person I can think of with that level of alchemical ability is Severian himself, though (really need to see what that old chap is up to). However, if some of the wine went down Nanamo's windpipe, she'd probably just cough it up in a second. It's impossible to choke on liquids (that's called drowning).

Lolorito was in full control of the Braves (back then, at least). While always implicit, it wasn't until after Ilberd cuts off Raubahn's arm that he tells the Braves (and Blades) to detain the Scions. By that point, his main objective - offing "too big for his britches" Teledji Adeledji - had already been completed (without Ilberd goading Raubahn to do it, but that's another matter). They also pursue us throughout the escape, which... makes no sense if he would rather we stay alive and free. Except perhaps for appearances' sake, but he seems to have thrown appearances to the wind by 3.0. It's so self-contradictory as to be vexing.

Minfilia's whereabouts are probably the most frustrating question; we have a linkpearl to contact her with, and she had nowhere to go but out the same exit we did. She has to be alive. (A sidequest for the "Doman Adventurers' Guild" heavily implies this, as they say something about "Mistress Ascilia," Ascilia being Minfilia's real name.)

Thancred...? Probably snared in Y'shtola's Flow (he was in front of her, and it looked like a pretty big area spell). Without knowledge of how Flow works exactly we can't say though. I'd wager we find him seducing Garlean hunnies when we get there though, lol.

[Dualblade]

snip

Note that there actually is a drug in the FFXIV universe that couse a deep sleep called Somnus: It had a bit more prominence in 1.0 but I believe it also showed up at the very start of the Ul'Dahn storyline (The one where the Brass Blades are trying to say drugs were on the cart when they clearly put it there themselves.) In fact its existence was one of the big points people used to say that Nanamo would survive...now if it was Somnus why it affected her that way who knows, it probably wasn't supposed to. Possibly it was mixed in with another drug (and probably tested before being used on her.), possibly it was a completely different drug.