We should have a "Lance mage", "Ninja Sword mage", "Fist mage"

[AFinch]

My main problem with all the people saying "oh the dps is still good" or "oh BLM can deal with cast timers" is that they don't seem to understand the concept of play style. If it was all just about damage then let's get rid of all classes but three: tank, healer, dps. Why have any different classes if play style doesn't matter? If that sounds awful to you, then play style matters. And if play style matters then you should accept that some people are upset about the play style of BRD being drastically altered.

If you're a BRD though and you enjoy the changes, then let me ask you why you rolled BRD in the first place? What drew you to BRD that wasn't undermined by the implementation of WM? (By the way, if your answer is just "it had a bow," you need to leave this thread now. Clearly you will be happy no matter what happens to BRD, and you should leave the discussion to the people on both sides who are actually invested in the job.)

[AFinch]

I signed up for brd cause we needed one for endgame. Purely for the songs.

Then leave this discussion. If the play style (which is what a lot of this is about) doesn't matter to you, then stop trying to force the rest of us to adapt to your indifference.

[Nestama]

People who clearly don't understand the problems of missed BL procs and Straighter Shot procs coming too late should experience it before making saying it's fine and to shut up about it.

I think BLM's, even without a BRD, can talk about it. Firestarter proc = Straighter Shot proc. Thundercloud proc = Bloodletter proc (and before people start going "see!? We're bow mages!" this has been a thing since ARR).

[Tilgung]

People who clearly don't understand the problems of missed BL procs and Straighter Shot procs coming too late should experience it before making saying it's fine and to shut up about it.

I'll give you Straighter Shot, but Blood Letter procs have been an issue for anyone who couldn't squeeze off two oGCDs due to latency. I'd personally argue no class was designed around two oGCDs between GCDs given most people need programs like WTFast and Pingzapper to make this possible.

You're claiming something is broken without actually knowing if such a play style was even intended in the first place.

[Aiselia]

I'd personally argue no class was designed around two oGCDs between GCDs given most people need programs like WTFast and Pingzapper to make this possible.

Ninjas have up to 4. 3 mudras plus Ninjutsu. Optimal use of Barrage is to use it with Empyreal Arrow, being the highest potency weaponskill. Both Barrage and Empy are OGCD, and you can't use a GCD in between because that will burn Barrage.

I'd argue that you can't claim "most people" require programs to make two oGCDs possible without evidence. I'd also argue that whether or not people have latency that causes them to miss double OGCDs is irrelevant to design, or else the scourge of mudra lag would mean Ninjas weren't meant to cast their ninjutsus.

You're claiming something is broken without actually knowing if such a play style was even intended in the first place.

No, I'm claiming it's broken because it was a big part of the damage before and is now less feasible.

[AylmerOfFamfrit]

We should just have rdm. Like it was in ffxi. Spike spells and en-element spells that taper off over time. With moderate dps capability and moderate healing. Nothing op.

[Sapphic]

We should just have rdm. Like it was in ffxi.

You mean stuck at the back casting enfeebles, but primarily keeping refresh up on the other casters? RDM was NEVER taken for their DPS.

[RiceisNice]

I think BLM's, even without a BRD, can talk about it. Firestarter proc = Straighter Shot proc. Thundercloud proc = Bloodletter proc (and before people start going "see!? We're bow mages!" this has been a thing since ARR).

Fire III was not part of your regular rotation outside of using it in umbral III and firestarter. Straight shot for bard is. If I get a straighter shot proc in the middle of my straight shot, I get none of the benefits, but still end up using more TP (which is a finite resource) for less potency. Thundercloud is also more potent than bloodletter and uses a GCD (not that it didn't come with its own problems, though seems to be changed a bit). Bloodletter is oGCD and resets much more frequently, something that doesn't meld well with cast times.

I'll give you Straighter Shot, but Blood Letter procs have been an issue for anyone who couldn't squeeze off two oGCDs due to latency. I'd personally argue no class was designed around two oGCDs between GCDs given most people need programs like WTFast and Pingzapper to make this possible.

You're claiming something is broken without actually knowing if such a play style was even intended in the first place.

It's very easy to use two oGCDs on classes that have instant weaponskills with a 2.5 GCD. That is, BRD, MCH, DRG and all tanks.. MNK and NINs have reduced GCD timers from GL/Hueton. And considering BRD has a passive that resets their oGCD which is practically free damage on use, on top of the amount of cooldowns and oGCDs they get in comparison, I'm pretty sure we're supposed to pump them out in the most efficient matter in the shortest amount of time to make hte most use out of it (buffs) or to reduce the amount of stacking/waste (bloodletter)

[AylmerOfFamfrit]

I really think a revamped RDM could be made. Ninja in ffxi used to be an enfeeble-ish moderate dps in ffxi originally and now in ffxiv they are known as a dps force to be reckoned with. Why cant SE do something similar with Rdm? Rdm used to be a rock star in prev FF games. Why not in this one?

[Deusteele]

Rdm used to be a rock star in prev FF games. Why not in this one?

No it wasn't. Beyond FF 1, Red Mage was always eclipsed around halfway through the game by Jobs that could everything it could, better. It's Top skill since FF V was Doublecast, which was always better in the hands of a pure mage.