We should have a "Lance mage", "Ninja Sword mage", "Fist mage"

[Aiselia]

So you gain a 10-12% increase in dps to delay a 50 potency attack.

Okay. And?

I didn't say anything about DPS. I said that the class became slower paced.

Remember?

I didn't say we did less damage now. I said that the class became slower-paced, reducing its complexity. At no point did I make a complaint about the DPS now being lower.

The reason non-bards jump in is because your complaint isn't logical. Which is obvious since you are more concerned of a 50 potency attack vs a 10-12% increase in dps.

Judging from your efforts here, you don't even seem to understand my complaint, much less those of all Bards. Which is obvious since you bring up DPS when I'm talking about play style.

The reason non-Bards jump in is because they think they understand more than they really do.

[Wintersandman]

snip.

Still not following you because in reality this conversation has gone in circles and so have your arguments. You talk about pace and having to squeeze in all your oGCD to "optimize dps".

Bard have never been complex and so there is not much to understand. It never mattered if you did circles around the boss or stand still you would still do the same thing, you would follow your priority. If anything WM makes bards more aware.

Also I wouldn't say ALL bards as I have seen bards who say that using WM is beneficial to their dps.

I understand your complaint from that you dislike cast timers and are worried about trying to get two oGCD's within a GCD time limit as it speeds up the pace for 10s out of 60s.

[Caraway]

Only if your willing to take a 40+% overall DPS baseline loss of which to place/build that 30% on.

Except that wasn't what was mentioned. The OP didn't say anything about reducing baseline DPS (because they're claiming it isn't the DPS differences that are the problem, but the sheer change in mobility).

Bard has a lower baseline (and it isn't 40% lower by the way) because they have a boon in their ability to continue DPS during what would be a disconnect for melee DPS. You can keep hitting the boss while a melee DPS cannot and has to rely on DoTs and gap-closers to mitigate (but never eliminate) the disconnect from the boss.

So to reiterate, Bard has the ability to continue their DPS while they are moving away from threat. A melee cannot do this. Thus melee gets an increase in their DPS potential compared to bards.

You''ll lose auto attacks and time to use mudras in between weaponskills.

you seem to forgot about the loss of auto atacks. It is not a +30%

I am well aware that auto-attacks would be lost, but you are both over-valuing how much they add. At most you are getting 25% of your DPS thanks to your auto-attacks. Without them and a 30% DPS boost on top of everything else would net you at minimum a 5% DPS boost.

Wanderer's Minuet gives a 1.5s cast time, which is less than even a Ninja's GCD (which is around 2.0).

Currently I can incorporate a two mudra Ninjutsu into my rotation with only a minor nudge to my next GCD skill. Considering it is best practice to instead use Shuriken when you don't need to use a three mudra Ninjutsu this would not impact me either. I can fit that in between those 1.5s cast times.

The OP (and apparently a lot of Bards') issue is the lack of mobility, not the adjustment in damage. My point is that even with your 'loss of mobility' you still have more than a melee does. A good melee does not move unless they have to.

[Kayote]

I said that the class became slower-paced, reducing its complexity.

Slower? Sure, we now have a whole 1.5 seconds to think about what to do next. Reduced complexity? Dont think so. We have to actually think about moving now... when to turn off WM or just take the dps hit and move, some are even considering using Feint now, when to finish the cast or get out of AoE, EA itself throws an interesting little twist to the whole rotation since its both a cast and an oGCD. Before it was all just GCD, one or two oGCD's, keep DoTs up, and repeat. Now we got all that and more, so id say we're at least somewhat more complex.

At no point did I make a complaint about the DPS now being lower.

So then what exactly is the point in bringing up the whole 1 oGCD vs 2 oGCD if not DPS? Fine we only have time for one oGCD now because of cast times ... so what? Our DPS is the same or better in comparison. If its not related to DPS then why is that point brought up every single time?

those of all Bards.

#NotAllBards

[Rafaelhades]

Am I the only one that cancels skill casts at around 80% and trigger oGCDs? It seems like I never really lost mobility as I don't sit there and wait for the cast to go through the animations. Especially helpful when dodging red spots aimed at me. You can slide-cast and cancel the animation and instantly trigger oGCD. Although if you mess up, your cast interrupts and you simply trigger OGCD rather than layering both on top of each other.

Although I do find myself not spamming my GCDs just to queue them anymore. I will agree that it requires a bit more intimate knowledge of optimal skills to prioritize when you have all of your cds up.

[Zamii]

I am well aware that auto-attacks would be lost, but you are both over-valuing how much they add. At most you are getting 25% of your DPS thanks to your auto-attacks. Without them and a 30% DPS boost on top of everything else would net you at minimum a 5% DPS boost.

thats not how it maths out at all, if you lose 25% of your damage due to auto hits, that 25% isnt being boosted by the 30%, so your only applying a 30% damage buff to the remaining 75% of your damage.

this equates to a net LOSE in damage of 2.5%

[Aiselia]

so have your arguments.

If you'd pay attention to my arguments in the first place instead of derailing onto things I haven't said, there'd be less circles, I assure you.

ALL bards

I didn't say anything about the complaints of all bards.

I said that you don't understand my complaints and you're talking directly to me. If you can't understand mine on a one-to-one basis, then you won't understand what people that aren't me are complaining about either.

you dislike cast timers

Then I picked a weird choice to level first when I picked a caster, eh?

No, you clearly don't understand my complaint. I don't mind cast timers. I mind cast timers that are shoehorned onto a class optimized for not having cast timers and that has no cast timers for 52 levels.

If its not related to DPS then why is that point brought up every single time?

Well, I don't know. Why don't you ask the people who aren't me why they bring up things that aren't relevant to what I was saying?

[Wintersandman]

thats not how it maths out at all, if you lose 25% of your damage due to auto hits, that 25% isnt being boosted by the 30%, so your only applying a 30% damage buff to the remaining 75% of your damage.

this equates to a net LOSE in damage of 2.5%

But the parses are saying otherwise.

I didn't say anything about the complaints of all bards.

Judging from your efforts here, you don't even seem to understand my complaint, much less those of all Bards. Which is obvious since you bring up DPS when I'm talking about play style.

You did right there.

No, you clearly don't understand my complaint. I don't mind cast timers. I mind cast timers that are shoehorned onto a class optimized for not having cast timers and that has no cast timers for 52 levels.

Again change. So it is even more apparent that you don't like change. This is evident since really all your complaint is 'shoehorned' when really SE re-optimized it to have cast timers.

[Tilgung]

thats not how it maths out at all, if you lose 25% of your damage due to auto hits, that 25% isnt being boosted by the 30%, so your only applying a 30% damage buff to the remaining 75% of your damage.

this equates to a net LOSE in damage of 2.5%

Auto-attacks are only 20% though. It's a net gain on paper.

[Aiselia]

You did right there.

I reiterate. I didn't say anything about the complaints of all bards.

I said you don't understand my complaints, so you wouldn't understand the entirety of complaints across all bards, which may or may not be the same as mine.

you don't like change.

That's why I levelled all classes to 50. Because I hate change. And since all classes are exactly alike, there was no change.

SE re-optimized it to have cast timers.

If it was optimized for cast timers, Straighter Shot wouldn't proc after the GCD is finished, resulting in potentially starting a Straight Shot cast before you get the buff that makes Straight Shot be instant cast.

Every time you make a post, you make it clearer that you don't know anything about current Bard problems.