Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

[Kuroyasha]

By the way, are you guys aware that even if you clip 6 DoTs of Thunder. Let's say you use a proc when you have 18 secs left on a mob, it's 710 Potency - 240 potency. It's equal 470 Potency and it is still better than the Fire IV 504 Potency?

470/2.5 = 188 PPS
504/3 = 168 PPS

In other words, a F3P is more PPS than Fire IV. A 2.5 seconds Flare is more PPS than Fire IV and this is one of the main reasons why I worked on different openers (which I should release the infos later today)

Looked at your guide just now while you're editing in the new openers. The 3rd is basically the one being used for a while in our fc outside of maybe a few differences.

I've been going QS > Sharp> F1 as pulled> Eno> F3P > Ley + RS > F4 > F1 > pot > F4 x 3> Swift> Flare >Convert > F4 > rotation as normal going into UI taking into account mana ticks for which thunder to use or if to use it at all etc.

[Primm]

This is how I do it in A3S or Faust for example:
QS > Sharp > Ley > F3 as pulled > Eno > F1 > RS + pot > F4 x 3 > F3P > Swift > F4 > Convert > F4 > F4 >

Not sure if this is really the best possible but especially in A3S does it work quite well .. but not perfectly ..

Is Kuroyasha's rotation really better? Have to try it out ..

[Sleigh]

By the way, are you guys aware that even if you clip 6 DoTs of Thunder. Let's say you use a proc when you have 18 secs left on a mob, it's 710 Potency - 240 potency. It's equal 470 Potency and it is still better than the Fire IV 504 Potency?

470/2.5 = 188 PPS
504/3 = 168 PPS

In other words, a F3P is more PPS than Fire IV. A 2.5 seconds Flare is more PPS than Fire IV and this is one of the main reasons why I worked on different openers (which I should release the infos later today)

Honestly, not trying to be rude here but I've posted about a billion times that you have to consider F4 + current DoT ticks rather than just F4's potency vs TC's current potency if clipped. I'm not sure if you consider that irrelevant but no one seems to care about or consider this fact.

Something like F4 vs TC being X potency at a specific time is only relevant when you must use TC or let it drop, and usually by then the DoT portion of your old Thunder is low enough that it's a gain anyway and you don't have to worry about it being better or worse than F4 at 18s left on the timer. When it comes to multi-DoTing it's more relevant, like A1S, but even then it's still something you wanna not do unless it's do or die if you can F4 on a high Thunder duration opponent with no other options.

Gotta emphasize I'm not trying to be rude or mean or whatnot here but I'm just getting annoyed when people talk about this as if Thunder's current DoT doesn't make F4 the equivalent of a boatload more damage than what TC's clipping will give you if you clip really high up. If people see this 18s rule, they're gonna think they should literally give up a F4 to do it at that point, and that's not good at all.

[Kuroyasha]

This is how I do it in A3S or Faust for example:
QS > Sharp > Ley > F3 as pulled > Eno > F1 > RS + pot > F4 x 3 > F3P > Swift > F4 > Convert > F4 > F4 >

Not sure if this is really the best possible but especially in A3S does it work quite well .. but not perfectly ..

Is Kuroyasha's rotation really better? Have to try it out ..

I didn't come up with it. I just used what a few of our blms (le roy, blackcat, charmin) came up with a while ago and changed when I popped potion to give a little room to use a f3p if i got a second from the 2nd f1 while fitting rest under the pot.

[BlackcatChen]

snip

Yeah, I've been doing about the same for quite a while (same pot placement too), but with leylines on prepull after sharpcast when I can. Depending on connection, with leylines' longer animation time it might not be possible to fit both it and RS in the GCD of the F3P. The reason I like Sharp F1 openers is simply the amount of MP used, with no gambling on an MP tick after Blizzard 3 (where you don't even have enough MP for Blizzard 1). Instead, you're gambling on the second F1 to proc to do a bit extra damage before your Flare. Since the MP lines up nicely, you can easily do Thunder > Blizzard 4 if you want to right after Blizzard 3, and never actually stop casting.

That being said, F3 openers are nice for fights where you have to move 3-4 casts in, while F1 openers are nice for fights where you either don't have to move at all, or have to move in the time you cast swift flare. Openers should be tailored to encounters, just like always.

[Kuroyasha]

quote

Ohhh snap blackcat posting on official forums?! lol

[Aikaal]

Honestly, not trying to be rude here but I've posted about a billion times that you have to consider F4 + current DoT ticks rather than just F4's potency vs TC's current potency if clipped. I'm not sure if you consider that irrelevant but no one seems to care about or consider this fact.

Something like F4 vs TC being X potency at a specific time is only relevant when you must use TC or let it drop, and usually by then the DoT portion of your old Thunder is low enough that it's a gain anyway and you don't have to worry about it being better or worse than F4 at 18s left on the timer. When it comes to multi-DoTing it's more relevant, like A1S, but even then it's still something you wanna not do unless it's do or die if you can F4 on a high Thunder duration opponent with no other options.

Gotta emphasize I'm not trying to be rude or mean or whatnot here but I'm just getting annoyed when people talk about this as if Thunder's current DoT doesn't make F4 the equivalent of a boatload more damage than what TC's clipping will give you if you clip really high up. If people see this 18s rule, they're gonna think they should literally give up a F4 to do it at that point, and that's not good at all.

My point was that Fire IV PPS is lower because it's a 3 seconds cast. Using Thundercloud when you have your dot at 18 secs is a DPS increase. It is the same as using Swift Flare Convert on an opener. Also, a proc by default allows you to be more mobile.

Swift Flare vs Fire IV
260/2.5 > 280/3
104 PPS > 93.33 PPS

Fire 3 Proc vs Fire IV
240/2.5 > 280/3
96 PPS > 93.33 PPS

So you are actually wrong by overestimating Fire IV. The same mistake that led me to the conclusion Sharpcast Fire 1 with my current Spell Speed is better than the 6 Fire IV opener I used to use all the time. I still use the 6 Fire IV opener on A3S and it's only because this opener has the advantage to be more mobile at the beginning with the Swiftcast.

If you have good Thundercloud management, you'll use 1 proc in your Astral Fire and 1 proc in your Umbral Ice but in certain situations, multiple procs is handy for movement.

Here's the updates :

http://solitude.guildwork.com/_/aikaals-blm-guide

Video

[Neophyter]

In your guide, why is the middle opener's F3 only at 192 potency when the first opener's F3 is at 240 potency?

[Sleigh]

My point was that Fire IV PPS is lower because it's a 3 seconds cast. Using Thundercloud when you have your dot at 18 secs is a DPS increase. It is the same as using Swift Flare Convert on an opener. Also, a proc by default allows you to be more mobile.

Swift Flare vs Fire IV
260/2.5 > 280/3
104 PPS > 93.33 PPS

Fire 3 Proc vs Fire IV
240/2.5 > 280/3
96 PPS > 93.33 PPS

So you are actually wrong by overestimating Fire IV. The same mistake that led me to the conclusion Sharpcast Fire 1 with my current Spell Speed is better than the 6 Fire IV opener I used to use all the time. I still use the 6 Fire IV opener on A3S and it's only because this opener has the advantage to be more mobile at the beginning with the Swiftcast.

If you have good Thundercloud management, you'll use 1 proc in your Astral Fire and 1 proc in your Umbral Ice but in certain situations, multiple procs is handy for movement.

Here's the updates :

http://solitude.guildwork.com/_/aikaals-blm-guide

Video

PPS of TC doesn't mean much when you consider the DoT is tied into the TC that you are destroying to get it. For reference I am only talking about TC vs F4 (and I guess F3P to some extent), not F4 vs anything else.

PPS of TC, raw: 284
PPS of F4: 168
PPS of TC at 18s, taking into account you are losing the previous DoTs (which should actually only be 2 ticks at this point, not 3): 184 PPS

By that reasoning you'd think, yes, TC at 18s is "stronger" than F4. It's much simpler to look at it as potency though. 504 + anywhere from 40 to 320 potency vs 390 + anywhere from 40 to 320 potency, speed of the spell be damned. At 18s, or two ticks, that's 504 + 240 = 744 potency by doing that F4. 390 + 80 potency = 470 potency for doing a TC. Even doing their PPS, it's 248 vs 188. Jump that down to 15s, 3 ticks, and it's 504 + 200 = 704 for F4, 390 + 120 = 510 for TC, PPS is 234 vs 204. Don't you see what I mean when I say doing a TC at 18s (or even 15s) is less potency and PPS than just doing a F4? Especially if you can (and 99% of the time if you're stationary, you can) throttle the TC to a point where the potencies are flipped around.

Mobility is supreme of course, that can't be argued.

Edit: fixed F4 PPS

[Neophyter]

.snip

It sounds like you're trying to tie in the remaining Thunder DoT to F4 when doing your calculations. Doesn't that mean you should tie in the new DoT applied for Thundercloud as well? So instead of Thundercloud + DoT ticked, it should be Thundercloud + DoT ticked + new DoT that will tick.