Thread: To all 3.0 Tanks

It doesn’t matter what kind of role you fulfil in a group, the size of the group that is pulled should not be determined based on the gear someone is wearing, but how comfortable everyone is with the size of the pull. Even if you have a tank that is confident enough about his skills and pulls the entire floor, his/her healer or dps might not. The tank should then respect the fact that the group is not able/willing to handle his pulls and tone it down. If the tank is not confident and sticks to pulling 1 group of mobs only, then the others should respect that decision as well.

By forcing a bigger pull, you will only increase the risk of wiping, which is never a good idea.

Some might be seeking such a challenge, but others might not. You are not helping the situation if you complain to the healer that he/she was not able to keep the tank alive, or that the dps is too low to kill the mobs in time before the tank runs out of buffs/the healer runs out of MP, or have a dps pull more mobs then the tank can handle and complain that the group wiped.

Originally Posted by AskaRay

More like, tanks if I wait like ten seconds to make sure you stop please don't start pulling again because I just put my turret down and now you're out range.
kthx

Well, to be honest, there have been so many occasions where a DPS appears to be in a hurry and tries to force the tank into pulling the mobs/boss. Due to this, a tank would get triggered whenever something happens in the boss arena which was not caused by the him/herself.

A tank like myself would be triggered by something like that and in an automatic “panic” response, i would run in, trying to prevent the boss from running rampant and killing the entire group.

When Heavensward came out, i had the foggiest idea what the skills of a machinist were and how the turrets worked. So the second a machinist deploys his/her turret, i used to think that the machinist was in a hurry and forced a pull. Now that i know better, i won’t be jumping in when a non-aoe turret is used, because it won’t automatically start pulling the boss. It would be a different issue, it the machinist would deploy the turret with the pulsating lightning aoe, which WOULD pull the boss when placed next to it.

Just keep in mind that not every tank is familiar with the mechanics of other jobs. (^_~ )

Originally Posted by Urielparadox

I did dv with a healer friend my first time his second. He told me if tank refuses to pull 2 groups you do it. At I130 gear blm using cool downs my friend kept me Alive while aoe and tanked 2 groups at a time so yeah.

I hate when people do that. If i’m tanking a dungeon, i pull with the mindset i and the rest of the group can handle the pull. If i’m not pulling more, then there’s a reason for that. I might not have enough cooldowns ready for when the fight goes sideways.

If you believe the group can pull more, say so. Don’t just go pulling the next pack.

The same applies the other way around. If you think that the tank is pulling too much, say so.

Knowing what you and your party can handle is half the battle.

Originally Posted by KazuneHypnotik

When I tank, I only take one mob at a time or maybe two if i'm feeling lucky. I never pull anymore than that *unless I know my healer can handle the heals.* Hell, when I go into a new dungeon.. I take the groups one at a time. They can hate me as much as they want but atleast we will get through the dungeon with no mob wipes

I fully support this. I do the same thing. When i’m new to a duty, i want to test out the waters before going full out. I want to know what to expect when i’m in a duty. I rather be safe then sorry and i don’t care if the duty takes a few minutes longer because if it. Clearing a duty smoothly is more important than the time in which we clear it.

Speedruns are fine and all, but there are plenty of runs where killing one pack at a time is only slightly slower than pulling more, while making the duty go smoother in the process. Just don’t put yourself and the rest of the party into a tight spot where stress levels rise rapidly and the chance of wiping increases tremendously.

And last of all, talk to one another. Don’t assume that everyone is on your level.

To be fair, Vengeance (WAR Skill) Is a very tanky ability that is great for tanking large pulls of mobs. If we had a DD Equivalent That + Eye for an Eye should make any war hold their own once half decently geared.

Originally Posted by LionKing

To all 3.0 Healers:

Please do not suddenly go afk without a warning ...

Who the hell goes AFK during a fight? There are stupid tanks that chain pull (never do this), failing to kill the last mob before moving on, thus the mob follows the tank, and the healer and DPS are still in combat mode so their HP and MP/TP doesn't recover. There are dozens if not hundreds of threads on the healer forum that pinpoint stupid things that tanks do, and this is at the top of the list next to "doesn't know how to use cooldowns"

Wait for the healer to show they are ready before you move (eg re-casting stoneskin, or simply having you targeted), or you will be the one blamed for wiping on trash. I'd say 80% of tanks don't even wait for stoneskin, even if the healer is capable of doing swiftcast-stoneskin II. So because the tank was impatient they're the only one without the buff.

If you're going to halfass speedpull, pull all the mobs to a point, and completely stop, that signals the healer that you're going to engage the mobs. If you backtrack or go around a corner without the healer having line of sight, you are going to wipe.

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

snip

I've always tanked in FFXIV and I've always followed most (if not all) of what you wrote, but I never even had to "think" about those things. And where I'm going with this is that recently I started leveling a healer and I am genuinely astonished by how bad some tanks can be. After all since I played only the Paladin / Dark Knight I never had the chance to see how other's do their business in single parties... boy there are some bad tanks out there.

And reading from your link, I'm not sure if I feel better or worse that this has always been a thing. I'd say that about a third of the times I go on DF I get good tanks, but then I've witnessed things that I do not understand... The worst as some have mentioned are the DPS-in-disguise Dark Knights... Going in without Dark Arts (in essence cutting their skills in half and halving their own dps), not using their defensive cool-downs... Though to be fair I see tanks not using CDs in every class.


Some of them save everything for the boss and use it all in one go. What the hell.


Edit: On an aditional note, now that I play a healer I also noticed how bad some of them are! Spamming cure or the class-equivelant, not applying dots on enemies, not buffing, not curing status-effects...

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

snip.

1/ Apparently, a lot of healer I meet up in Duns by using DF, A LOT. But I won't group all the 3.0 Healers are the same as this minority

2/For an over geared tank and party, how much MP does the healer really need to heal for each pull of 3-4 max trash mobs? I would say 6k MP is plenty to heal through each pull. And by the time, we reach to third pull, their MP regain skill should be off CD and ready to be used again. It is understandable if Healer run out of MP if Tank does a BIG PULL, but if run out of Mp by chain pull 3-4 mobs max at a time is just poor Mp skill management.

3/Again, for an overgear Tank and party, and chain pulling, not BIG PULLING, Stoneskin is not necessary and can easily be done without. It helps, yes but not a must. If tank dies by taking 3-4 mobs at a time, don't blame on Tank for not having a Stoneskin, the Healer's skill should be in question.

4/A good tank will never put himself in a position where he is out of sight of the Healer. This is totally Tank's fault, no argument from me.

Some Healer has problems healing big pull even if the tank is well geared. Chain pull is the next option for a smooth and efficient run.

Then again, what I fail to understand is why the healer fall behind the party all of the sudden, even without sprint, and they do have Sprint for free to boost with as well.

Then again, I am not here for that but rather, there are good tanks and so are bad tanks. There are also good healers as well as bad healers, so don't group everything into one category.