Alexander token loot system using DF. How does it compare to COIL loot system. Math?

[EdgeFayth]

...But the odds are better, cause multiples of the same thing can drop. Like in A4 last night, two shafts dropped same run

Well, RNG...
A friend wanted a spring on F4. He did it 10 times in a row, and did not see even one. At the same time, my group dropped 6 springs in 4 runs.
RNG...

For me this is definitely better than before. But I can see getting the items you want outside of a static group can be tricky (people in PF will leave once they got their items, and you have to fight against potentially 7 other people in DF).

I think a system a la 3.0 EX primals would have been better.

[Delorean]

i really dislike it

[Namida-Hikari]

Well, RNG...
A friend wanted a spring on F4. He did it 10 times in a row, and did not see even one. At the same time, my group dropped 6 springs in 4 runs.
RNG...

That's exactly why I hate this loot system!!! Did 9 runs and don't even get one loot. Farming again and again to see newcomers roll for the first time and get the loot you're here for since hours... NOT FAIR.

[fanservice]

I started farming alexander floors when i had 80 tomes left from my last purchase for the ilvl minimum.

I've done nothing but alexander for a day, and I'm at 1420 tomes.

Loot actually won: 1 spring for floor 4. Yesterday.

Mind you, we get 20 per clear, and an extra 40 for newcomers. I got 1340 tomes in intervals of 20 and fking 60.

Everyone being your competition is stupid.

at 1500 now

[Mikedizzy]

This new system is hard to say right now but my initial thoughts are:
since they are tokens...anyone running that Floor must need one of them so your chances of having something only you can roll on are almost non-existent now.
your only hope is that everyone is going for the other two pieces and not yours. I have been lucky and got all four of my tokens for the week but I can see having to run this a ton...that would fit how they want the content attacked...should always have lots of people in the DF for it.

[fanservice]

I'd call this loot system an easy way to make players sick of the content from how much people have to run it for a 12.5% chance to actually win something at worst.

Should be at least 3-4 tokens a kill so i could see 2 or 3 bolts/lenses drop at a time. That way even if I lose one, that's one less player able to roll on the second.


Thanks to weekly lockouts on loot, you're not going to get people who can't roll on anything queing up to do the floor for the hell of it. They're gone for the week once they get their drop, and another thirsty freshface takes that place in the DF.

[seida]

As it is now, it's not ideal I think. If 3 or 4 tokens dropped it would be much improved. You can only get one per floor anyway, but it would help relieve those who get stuck with horrible rng.

I mean, it's still better than before in the sense that you're not locked out once you've cleared it, but it does lead to a lot of grinding.

[Zfz]

newcomers roll for the first time and get the loot you're here for since hours... NOT FAIR.

This is entirely fair and the only fair way, for PUGs. If you want a system that takes into consideration your total time invested, you need a static. DF frees you from the burdens of a static but in exchange it treats everyone equally.

[DracotheDragon]

i keep saying it over and over on topics with the alex loot
but something similar to ravana and bismarck would of been cool, 1 random loot and 1 token loot, that way if your lucky your lucky if not well then you have a chance
and do what coils did if you go in with people who have cleared you can only go for the token (at least for now while its new)

[Garlyle]

Given that token drops are independant of each other and thus can roll the exact same result, the odds of seeing token a, with illustration of possible combos...
-1/9 (11%) chance of two of a given token dropping (a+a)
-4/9 (44%) chance of one of a given token dropping (a+b, a+c, b+a, c+a)
-4/9 (44%) chance of none of a given token dropping (b+b, c+c, b+c, c+b)
In other words, there's a 55% (well 55.55555...%) chance to see the token drop at all; with a higher total 'payout'. The simple form is - as you might expect - that there's an average of 2 of each token per 3 runs. But still, just over half chance of any given run having the token in question.

The bigger, more difficult to calculate comparison is on how many people are now going to be competing for that. In a worst case scenario, you can divide the majority of that by 8 if everyone is competing over the exact same token drop and only that token drop (Most likely to happen in Floor 4 with Armor tokens); even on a double case drop there's only about a 1/4 chance you get one of them.

So if you take those rates and divide them appropriately (44%/8 + 11%/4), in a worst case scenario of everyone seeking the exact same token, you have about an 8% chance of any given run ending in you, specifically getting that drop. However, that is a worst case scenario - the odds go up quickly for every player not competing against you for that specific drop. That 8% is an absolute minimum.

For the sake of comparison, the drop rate of a desired piece of gear in the Final Coil of Bahamut is anywhere from 7% to 14% depending on which turn and coffer it is (Most are 10-11%) at best, before calculating any player competition over a drop for whatever reason - these percentages are a maximum. This is also ignoring the previous raid format of drops being limited per week.

In other words, with a minimum to maximum range based on number of players also seeking that drop, the chances of you getting the loot you are after on any given run:
-In Alexander: 8%-55%
-In Coil: 1%-14%