Speed Runs Suck

[Twilite]

Ps : sorry for bad english >.>

Wasn't anything bad about it.

[DkDerek]

The tank does not the set the pace. The group sets the pace. If the tank is pulling at a snails pace, I will pull for him. The healer will heal me. The tank will stand there and look like an idiot.

Just because you play a tank, does not make you the groups leader. Especially when the dps overgear the instance by about 25 item levels. You don't even need a tank.

[DkDerek]

I suggest you just learn to be better at the game. Speed running does not need to be stressful. Just get better at it. The more you do it, the better you will get.

[LionKing]

The tank does not the set the pace. The group sets the pace. If the tank is pulling at a snails pace, I will pull for him. The healer will heal me. The tank will stand there and look like an idiot.

Just because you play a tank, does not make you the groups leader. Especially when the dps overgear the instance by about 25 item levels. You don't even need a tank.

Um...more like you will be the one to get blamed for doing the tank job without being an actual tank and be the idiot here unless you have the other 2 backs you up..

And Healer will not heal you, unless he knows what you are trying to do and actual want to give you a hand.

Good luck doing that in DF, the tank actually the one who set the pace., either let them do the job and support them (not by doing their job) or die like an idiot

[Unglitteringold]

While I understand that some people want to take time and travel through things slowly, you simply can't expect this from Duty Finder. If you want slow, gather a few similarly leveled people and run it until you learn the ropes.
Or join an FC that's willing to train you and help you through the steps....

I would argue that while some people want to rush through things, you simply can't expect this from Duty Finder. If you want fast, gather a few similarly leveled people and run it until you've achieved your goal.
Or join an FC that's willing to rush through things with you.


While not directly related to this thread, I would like to point out that for new players it is extremely difficult to make friends. The community is often hostile towards new players. I, personally, have not found an FC that was particularly helpful, and I only have a few friends IRL that play, but we are not often online at the same time. As a result, in order to go through the main quest line, I am forced to go into DF to run a new dungeon. There are also long spaces between levels doing the main quest line, and when leveling a tank, it is more fun for me to do dungeons than grind quests.
Perhaps if the more experienced players were more open and helpful to new players, then new players would get better faster and then you could all do your speed runs together.

[Seryl199]

The tank does not the set the pace. The group sets the pace. If the tank is pulling at a snails pace, I will pull for him. The healer will heal me. The tank will stand there and look like an idiot.

Just because you play a tank, does not make you the groups leader. Especially when the dps overgear the instance by about 25 item levels. You don't even need a tank.

As a healer, I would not heal you until after the tank has gained control over the mobs you pulled, if the tank pulls them off you at all. Chances are your ability to keep enmity on multiple mobs and off a healer isn't good, and I wouldn't take that chance in a pug regardless. It's likely that if the tank hasn't pulled mobs from a DPS by the time they need healing, they won't be any faster to pull mobs off of me. Were I to risk healing a DPS, I could pull 2-3 mobs at me, then run the very real risk of my casts getting interrupted while trying to heal as many as three targets, myself, the tank, and you. If the tank decides not to save you, I'll follow suit, the threat to my life that would cause a subsequent wipe to the party isn't worth your impatience. I'm already busy doing my job healing and dps'ing while you try doing the tank's job.

I suggest you just learn to be better at the game. Speed running does not need to be stressful. Just get better at it. The more you do it, the better you will get.

If you ask or try forcing the tank to do speed runs and they're resistant, chances are they have a reason. Maybe they just leveled up and are practicing new abilities, maybe they want to learn what trash mob does what. Those are players that are trying to get better at the game. Having players like you pulling twice as many mobs for them doesn't make them learn faster, it just gives them more to deal with while they try to learn the same things they were trying to practice before. When players have reached a level of comfort and confidence with a dungeon, then they will start pulling more of their own accord.

[kensatsu]

I love this tread XD,
Realy i am a bad tank i speedrun things, i pop CD and everything, and when healers can't heal ? i pull less, end of the story.
But it don't happen often. I will never speedrun if the healer ask to not do it (he still have to ask)
Speedrun is good to be fast but also training people, the problem for new players is how he is already mastering the JOB, maybe not ready to do a speedrun
New players don't have (new) marked to them, so i can understand the complain if some players still want to do speedrun after you asked to not do it.
If players ask to not speedrun don't do it.
But like i said it's part of training, if you wish to do harder content, it's may be the case, in that case new or not, you should later or soon speedrun as well and learn to do them properly.
I mean there is some content where tank need to know how to have aggro fast on everything, use defense cd properly, dps to do the highest damage as possible, healers healing the good amount of heal needed and manage mana the best as possible.
But yeah respect new players don't force the speedrun if a new player is not already able to do it.

[Nova_Dresden]

I explained exactly how tanks aren't doing what needs to be done to hold a small group because they think 1-2 aoe, single target 1 mob only, and done for the whole pack, they don't rotate combo and they don't aoe again. You try to tell them and they say they know their job and still don't. If a tan k is put in a situation to hold multiple mobs they will spam their aoe. Thus easier. Most bad tanks don't pay attention to the multiple agro meters. I shouldn't need to give that detailed of an explanation. .. this is no different then what I said in my last 2 post

Tanking is not an exact science, and treating it like it is is what causes several of my wipes. There are several factors I take into account each dungeon:

1. The level of the dungeon
2. The level of the healer if not capped
3. The DPS classes present
4. The playstyle of the DPS
5. The outcome of the first pull in the dungeon

The lower the level of the dungeon the fewer hate tools I have and the fewer cooldowns I can use to stay alive, so I pull relatively conservative and increase if I see we're having few issues. Leveling DRK here lately I can say that holding hate in Sastash is a brutal ordeal for some reason no matter how much MP I burn on Unleash or use my one threat combo.

If the healer is lower level than me in a leveling dungeon then I tend to take things easier on them unless I see we're not having issues. In experts I know the minimum ilvl is 145 and I know what kind of heals to expect at that ilvl since SCH is my main. If I see healing problems I pull to where I'm comfortable with the healing I receive.

If I see I have 2 BLM/SMN/BRD then I know I have AoE classes and I have to tank a certain way to stay ahead of them on threat for the group. If I have 2 melee I have to worry more about them each single-target focusing and need to split combos up and stun occasionally. It gets harder even still if I have a mix with a suicidal BLM burning every AoE he has with multiple flares while I have a melee tunneling on one mob because what will usually hold hate for one of those situations may not work on the other.

Tanking and healing are kind of thankless jobs and when I get DPS that assume that the healer and I (or tank and I if I'm healing) are just like their buddies in their FC they raid with and start pulling for themselves then the age-old dungeon rule applies.

The rule, since the beginning, has been 'you pull it, you tank it.'

[Cooperal]

I had a strange experience last night. Had a levelling roulette which landed me in the Stone Vigil. By the time we had killed the first boss and one extra group of trash, we already had 3 DPS who had dropped out. The other DPS and the healer stayed throughout.

I was choosing to pull all optionals as tank because I was enjoying the easy 2.3k per trash and we were tearing them down quickly and without hiccups/risks. The DPS that stayed said he was happy (I ultimately got 2 commendations) but noted how some people don't like killing optionals because they just want the daily. The most annoying thing about that is that I am completely happy to honour requests for a speedrun but they all left without a hint. Some people.

I get wanting to play MMOs like they're a singleplayer game. Some people like to be alone but still know other are out there. But when you jump into a crew and are that adamant to avoid conversation, that's when you're not worth having around.

[Geist]

I had a strange experience last night. Had a levelling roulette which landed me in the Stone Vigil. By the time we had killed the first boss and one extra group of trash, we already had 3 DPS who had dropped out. The other DPS and the healer stayed throughout.
I was choosing to pull all optionals as tank because I was enjoying the easy 2.3k per trash and we were tearing them down quickly and without hiccups/risks. The DPS that stayed said he was happy (I ultimately got 2 commendations) but noted how some people don't like killing optionals because they just want the daily. The most annoying thing about that is that I am completely happy to honour requests for a speedrun but they all left without a hint. Some people.

I get wanting to play MMOs like they're a singleplayer game. Some people like to be alone but still know other are out there. But when you jump into a crew and are that adamant to avoid conversation, that's when you're not worth having around.

Seconded: good communication is key, and a measure of courtesy towards the group you're in. And it would have been fair to provide an explanation - thus, room for agreement / a proper, happy medium - when instead they just marched out of the instance.

As Unglitteringold (Gen) mentioned previously, it's the kind of attitude that makes it harder to estabilish the bond of trust you need to keep a party going, especially early on, when you're new to the game and the job.