Speed Runs Suck

[Viridiana]

All these people that say "if the healer or dps pull extra mobs, I let them die" need to get off their high horse and do their job. You're not special because you are the tank.

If I'm tanking and the DPS deliberately pulls another group of mobs, they're telling me that they want to do my job. I'll let them until they die. If the healer for some reason heals them, I'll make sure the mobs don't go for the healer, but I won't pull mobs off of someone who deliberately pulled mobs to themselves, just like I wouldn't fight for aggro with an off tank.

[Rocond]

If I'm tanking and the DPS deliberately pulls another group of mobs, they're telling me that they want to do my job. I'll let them until they die. If the healer for some reason heals them, I'll make sure the mobs don't go for the healer, but I won't pull mobs off of someone who deliberately pulled mobs to themselves, just like I wouldn't fight for aggro with an off tank.

No. They are telling you that the group can handle more and you should do your part in that endeavor. I'm sure you would never understand that though because of the ego and general "I showed them by letting them die" attitude involved in that line of thinking.

[Dualblade]

No. They are telling you that the group can handle more and you should do your part in that endeavor. I'm sure you would never understand that though because of the ego and general "I showed them by letting them die" attitude involved in that line of thinking.

And if the group wipes because the DPS did so and the tank did actually take the mobs, trying to do their job when others are going out of their way to mess it up? Yes sometimes the group can handle it, but not always. I like tanking, more so bosses then mobs and such situations have happened where DPS pulls extra mobs and gets us killed.

[Rocond]

And if the group wipes because the DPS did so and the tank did actually take the mobs, trying to do their job when others are going out of their way to mess it up? Yes sometimes the group can handle it, but not always. I like tanking, more so bosses then mobs and such situations have happened where DPS pulls extra mobs and gets us killed.

You should read my first post then where I already said that is another story if they can't handle it. The point was you should at least put in the effort first to find that out rather than just let them die.

[Viridiana]

No. They are telling you that the group can handle more and you should do your part in that endeavor. I'm sure you would never understand that though because of the ego and general "I showed them by letting them die" attitude involved in that line of thinking.

The proper way to try to get someone to go faster is to ask, not to usurp their role. For the record, though, I don't have an ego when I tank, or when I heal. I know that I'm not stellar at either of them. But I am a good DPS, and I know that as a DPS you do not call up what you can not put down.

[Rocond]

The proper way to try to get someone to go faster is to ask, not to usurp their role. For the record, though, I don't have an ego when I tank, or when I heal. I know that I'm not stellar at either of them. But I am a good DPS, and I know that as a DPS you do not call up what you can not put down.

Whether or not you feel like you have an ego is whatever. I don't care. I'll let you feel however about that, but letting someone die on purpose because they didn't follow how you think the dungeon should go is an egotistical thing to do. There are no set rules on the way it should go and everyone should adapt to what's going on. Even if you think it's wrong the dps or healer grabbed some extra mobs, it's just as wrong to stop doing your job at that point beause you feel you're the important one to teach them a lesson.

I'll just leave it that. I think I made my point regardless of who agrees and who doesn't.

[Viridiana]

Even if you think it's wrong the dps or healer grabbed some extra mobs, it's just as wrong to stop doing your job at that point beause you feel you're the important one to teach them a lesson.

That doesn't make me important. They wanted my job; I let them have it. It's not my fault if they aren't qualified.

[Amelia_Pond_Behemoth]

Doesn't matter if you think a party can handle the extra mobs or not, but it's a total dick move to just pull more mobs without first using other means to communicate that you'd like to pick up the pace. Use your words.

[T2teddy]

Even if you think it's wrong the dps or healer grabbed some extra mobs, it's just as wrong to stop doing your job at that point because you feel you're the important one to teach them a lesson.
I'll just leave it that. I think I made my point regardless of who agrees and who doesn't.

20 years of playing MMOs here, most as a tank. The rule, since the beginning, has been 'you pull it, you tank it.' If you die, hopefully you've learned that the puller is the tank.
If a tank wants more groups, he/she will pull them, nobody else.

[Nova_Dresden]

I explained exactly how tanks aren't doing what needs to be done to hold a small group because they think 1-2 aoe, single target 1 mob only, and done for the whole pack, they don't rotate combo and they don't aoe again. You try to tell them and they say they know their job and still don't. If a tan k is put in a situation to hold multiple mobs they will spam their aoe. Thus easier. Most bad tanks don't pay attention to the multiple agro meters. I shouldn't need to give that detailed of an explanation. .. this is no different then what I said in my last 2 post

Tanking is not an exact science, and treating it like it is is what causes several of my wipes. There are several factors I take into account each dungeon:

1. The level of the dungeon
2. The level of the healer if not capped
3. The DPS classes present
4. The playstyle of the DPS
5. The outcome of the first pull in the dungeon

The lower the level of the dungeon the fewer hate tools I have and the fewer cooldowns I can use to stay alive, so I pull relatively conservative and increase if I see we're having few issues. Leveling DRK here lately I can say that holding hate in Sastash is a brutal ordeal for some reason no matter how much MP I burn on Unleash or use my one threat combo.

If the healer is lower level than me in a leveling dungeon then I tend to take things easier on them unless I see we're not having issues. In experts I know the minimum ilvl is 145 and I know what kind of heals to expect at that ilvl since SCH is my main. If I see healing problems I pull to where I'm comfortable with the healing I receive.

If I see I have 2 BLM/SMN/BRD then I know I have AoE classes and I have to tank a certain way to stay ahead of them on threat for the group. If I have 2 melee I have to worry more about them each single-target focusing and need to split combos up and stun occasionally. It gets harder even still if I have a mix with a suicidal BLM burning every AoE he has with multiple flares while I have a melee tunneling on one mob because what will usually hold hate for one of those situations may not work on the other.

Tanking and healing are kind of thankless jobs and when I get DPS that assume that the healer and I (or tank and I if I'm healing) are just like their buddies in their FC they raid with and start pulling for themselves then the age-old dungeon rule applies.

The rule, since the beginning, has been 'you pull it, you tank it.'