Speed Runs Suck

[Mcortes89]

People need to realise we were all newbies and going through the duty finder means getting newbies and shouldnt be speed running, find a party for that!

I take my time if its my first dungeon so I can get the lay-out, with so much going on its hard to get your bearings.

I had tank run off to mob then run off to grab more and come back, overwhelmed healer, tank kept dying. I had to stop being DPS to help heal, which shouldnt happen. Tank ranting and healer was upset saying he was new and didnt know what was happening. No one should feel that way.

When I started mine dungeon, I didnt know not to attack blob, everyone calling me names. Told them its my first mmorpg ever, first in dungeon. One said sorry and helped, others kept shouting.

Go find party to speedrun, dont act high and mighty because your lvl 60, there may be somone only lvl 19. Im lvl 35 only started dungeons as I like to do other things than main story.

Everyone was new once, be nice.

[Mcortes89]

Also to add on to above post.

People need to be patient with the chat option not everyone uses the pc or has a keyboard. I use the ps4 and dont have a keyboard so for me to type I need to scroll to every letter and have to stop moving which takes time.

So if you ask a q in a dungeon dont just run off until you get an answer as others will be in the same position.

Think about others not just yourself. Dont be so selfish as I am hoping people werent brought up like that :/

[Pandalink]

People need to be patient with the chat option not everyone uses the pc or has a keyboard. I use the ps4 and dont have a keyboard so for me to type I need to scroll to every letter and have to stop moving which takes time.

Bit off topic but you should consider investing in a wireless keyboard, they work on the PS4 and will be very helpful for this game.

[Mcortes89]

Bit off topic but you should consider investing in a wireless keyboard, they work on the PS4 and will be very helpful for this game.

Yeah I know but just wanted to add that as I had someone annoyed that I wasnt responding lol. Yeah I bought one the other day, waiting for it to arrive, it just clips into the ps4 controller

[Seryl199]

Reality is that these disruptive players don't give a crap.
All this talk of faith is old news and idealism to them.
They just want their crap and run done with disregard to other ppl. (Old news yup)
After (or even before) 1st wipe due to overzealous DPS or Healer's too busy DEE(r)Psing, I find it best to just leave party and leave them to do their monkey business to themselves.

/shrug

Being a main healer, that's my point of view for DPS'ing as a healer. Idealistic, maybe, but that's how I feel. I'm absolutely confident in my abilities to gauge how much damage the tank is taking, and I've already got my next couple moves charted out to chunk the tank back up when they're ready.

That said, I'll concede on your point about legitimately disruptive players. Like I said, I'm a healer main, so I don't get to see the other side of the fence much. I started my PLD at 51 yesterday, and ran Dusk Vigil for the first time on it. I was on point with CD's, would pull the next pack without delay, and the healer would spam DPS till they were nearly OOM then jump around in front of my character and be passive aggressive in chat. I agree with you there, I don't want to deal with that attitude, so I left. It's not the DPS I have a problem with, it's the disregard to other people, in a pug of all things, that frustrates me.

[Neophyte]

Yes, and since you pulled 1 or 2 more mobs you better tank them.
I'm a healer, and I'll only heal a DPS who deliberately pulled more mobs after the fight with the mobs pulled by the tank is over, so I hope you can manage them alone for 1-2 minutes.

Then i'll dot them, stun or push'em away, tribind them, virus them, heal myself or just pull out Titan Egi and tank myself. No problem. Or i pull the extramob into the group and finish both tankmobs with painflare/deathflare, then you may have time for healz?
SCH fairy is healing me whatever i do (if healer not saying her to not do anything) so i just stick around her.
I did every dungeon (2.x) synched with 4 SMN, so i know how long i can 'tank' and to handle my skills that save me in such situations.

@Viridiana: No ones talking about a group without any AoE-class. But SCH and SMN do more dmg the more mobs are there, with additional use of Eye for an Eye, which you won't use on unrisky 2mob-pulls. One Bio (or think of trisaster) at a additional mob grants way more dps than an additional ruin on the single target does.
The hate generated by DoTs is minimal and me standing next to tank makes it easy for him to just switch target.

As a tank (or player at all) you have to know what different classes are capable of... If you got an add left with 10% health and 5 DoTs running.. just go on.
If you're struggling with mobs, dont pull more.
If you're doing fine (healer dpsing and tank not dropping health) then it's just fine if you try something out.
I dont see any reason for letting a player die, if [i]everything[\i] runs fine and only thing is that i'm 'forced' to do little more than minimum effort.

I play healer myself sometimes and i would never ever give someone no heals just for 'punishing' him.
What's next, not healing a tank on purpose who use too less CDs to teach'em that you as a healer decide how much health everyone has to lose at max?
Probably only not doing it, cuz u would be next one dying.

After all it helps me to become a better healer, if i can react on such stuff (like in A2 it often happens that a dps gets initial aggro on a mob).
And i will never let someone die who does accidentially facepull (maybe out of my sight) and i think he did it on purpose, which may happen to healers like you.

[Viridiana]

@Viridiana: No ones talking about a group without any AoE-class. But SCH and SMN do more dmg the more mobs are there, with additional use of Eye for an Eye, which you won't use on unrisky 2mob-pulls. One Bio (or think of trisaster) at a additional mob grants way more dps than an additional ruin on the single target does.
The hate generated by DoTs is minimal and me standing next to tank makes it easy for him to just switch target.

Well, pretty much nobody in this thread has specified what job we're talking about. Just "DPS" pulling mobs, and "it's more damage to AOE than to single target," both statements that can apply just as much to TP users as to SMN and BLM. I'm not telling people not to AOE, because I know that's more DPS. I'm not telling tanks not to pull as much as they can handle, eucause I know that's also usually more DPS. I'm telling DPS that if they intentionally pull things, they better be able to kill the mob before the mob kills them. Unless, of course, the tank asks them to pull, or what have you.

As a tank (or player at all) you have to know what different classes are capable of... If you got an add left with 10% health and 5 DoTs running.. just go on.
If you're struggling with mobs, dont pull more.
If you're doing fine (healer dpsing and tank not dropping health) then it's just fine if you try something out.
I dont see any reason for letting a player die, if [i]everything[\i] runs fine and only thing is that i'm 'forced' to do little more than minimum effort.

I think our only point of disagreement here is that I feel it's the tank's decision to pull more, not the DPS's. Again, unless the DPS can kill what they're pulling. I have pulled ahead of the tank before when I knew I could solo what I was pulling even if the healer and tank both left me to rot. But as far as I'm concerned, that's me saying "Guys, I've got this one; y'all go on ahead to the next group."

I play healer myself sometimes and i would never ever give someone no heals just for 'punishing' him.
What's next, not healing a tank on purpose who use too less CDs to teach'em that you as a healer decide how much health everyone has to lose at max?
Probably only not doing it, cuz u would be next one dying.

That's a non sequitur. I heal the person who's tanking. Priority goes to the actual tank, of course, but if I have a GCD to spare I'll heal someone who pulled aggro. If someone pulled another pack accidentally (and I do try to give the benefit of the doubt here), I try to keep them alive, too. If someone pulled on purpose and the tank takes it off of them, I keep healing the tank and it doesn't matter because the DPS shouldn't be getting hit. But as a rule, I try not to heal things the tank doesn't have aggro on.

Now, if I'm tanking and someone pulls aggro, I take it off them. If they accidentally face-pull, I take it off them. If they intentionally pull, I make sure the healer and other DPS don't get aggro. If that means that the guy who pulled ahead of me survives, so be it. If he dies. . .well, next time maybe he'll use defensive CDs.

After all it helps me to become a better healer, if i can react on such stuff (like in A2 it often happens that a dps gets initial aggro on a mob).
And i will never let someone die who does accidentially facepull (maybe out of my sight) and i think he did it on purpose, which may happen to healers like you.

And what dungeon is there where a DPS can face-pull out of sight of the healer and tank and not have it be his fault? Besides, I don't assume that people are doing things deliberately unless I see them actually doing it deliberately. As for stuff like A2, that's an entirely different situation than what we've been talking about. A DPS getting aggro on the occassional mob in A2 is an inevitability. It's a gauntlet where the DPS are expected to go almost all out the entire time and where it's impossible for the DPS to have enmity reduction up for every pull. At the same time, though, the tanks are prioritizing mobs that can't be allowed to run free. Things that wind up on the DPS will usually be the little guys who are less dangerous. I will gladly heal the DPS through the few mobs the tank didn't get enough hate on as long as it's something the DPS can kill before they die. If it's something they can't kill before they die to it, they should be working with the tank to not pull aggro.

The tank is supposed to balance their pulls so that they can maintain aggro and not die. I agree that this quite often means more than one group at a time, which should be keeping the BLM/SMN in the group happy anyway. The healer is supposed to keep everyone alive, with priority to the tank because the tank is also trying to keep everyone alive, and maybe throw in some dps if they have a spare GCD. The DPS is supposed to balance killing things with not pulling aggro unless it's a mob they can safely tank or are expected to tank.

[Unglitteringold]

So, a lot of the pro-speed run responses talk about pulling as much as the party can handle.
When I'm in a random group, I don't know how much that is. I don't know how much DPS the party will do. I don't know how well the healer can heal. All I know is how much I can solo and how things have gone in completely different groups.

I am more than happy to pull fast. I am totally willing to pull big. But I have to get a couple pulls under my belt to see how the group is.
perhaps my issue is that people are just assuming that everyone is "optimized" instead of actually taking time to work with the random group they have.

[sackm]

So, a lot of the pro-speed run responses talk about pulling as much as the party can handle.
When I'm in a random group, I don't know how much that is. I don't know how much DPS the party will do. I don't know how well the healer can heal. All I know is how much I can solo and how things have gone in completely different groups.

I am more than happy to pull fast. I am totally willing to pull big. But I have to get a couple pulls under my belt to see how the group is.
perhaps my issue is that people are just assuming that everyone is "optimized" instead of actually taking time to work with the random group they have.

you could, I dont know, ASK THE GROUP IF THEY ARE OK WITH BIGGER PULLS. genius i know

[Unglitteringold]

you could, I dont know, ASK THE GROUP IF THEY ARE OK WITH BIGGER PULLS. genius i know

Sure, and what happens when they say, "Yes. Pull big," and then suck? Then they blame the tank for sucking, or the healer for sucking, and things are bad. Just because people SAY they are okay with bigger pulls doesn't mean they can actually handle bigger pulls. Not everyone has an accurate understanding of their abilities, and not every group will instantly be able to click into a rhythm and work well together.