Speed Runs Suck

[kensatsu]

It's a game, there nothing to be mad, but people can't bear speedrun, or can't bear no doing speedruns.
At least both tank and healer need to be ok with speedruns, if it's not the case for both, why doing it...
The problem occur when a player can't listen to others.
It's a problem for the dgn (when someone is not ready for speedruns), for the raid (it's harder content so when people don't read some advices or don't read the chat)... even for the pvp (when players play solo... in a mmo game, and only care about killing someone by chasing him and get killed instead).
Don't play solo, and listen to the others, it's a mmorpg, not a solo game...damn
Also i am doing speedruns when i tank, but i rarely have problem, also i never do low level dgn in speedrun, your gear is synch, so it would be too hard for the healer, and when i am doing speedruns, i never got the problem recently, but i remember in brayflox HM, when we wipe once too easy, i always tell to the group i pull less, cause everyone don't have the same level, gear, ect...
I still doing that.

[Geist]

I'll meet you at the 300 threads about nerfing content because shitters can't handle it.

...Did I actually read that? Sorry, but what's wrong with you?
Improvement cannot be forced. I'm all for becoming a better tank and pushing the envelope, since it's my main -- but I never, ever will do that at the detriment of the party I'm in.

I'm really sorry, but your view of teamwork seems... skewed to me, to put it bluntly. It flies over the obvious issue of mutual trust, and you cannot really engender new potential without that: if you want to be a leader, to inspire others, you've got to stand besides them as a peer first and foremost.

Simply put, people don't learn to be better because we say so.

[Nova_Dresden]

If a tank wipes us pulling too much, I definitely don't get mad. Good on you for pushing yourself. You're trying to improve everyone in the group.

If you pull one pack at a time, I will pull for you, tank things myself,and eventually initiate a vote kick.

We as a community need to breed better players. The average skill level of ffxiv players is horrifyingly low. Pushing yourself is the only way to improve.

I'll meet you at the 300 threads about nerfing content because shitters can't handle it.

Actually, what you're describing is why we don't have better players. Mass pulling and "burn baby, burn" creates the bad players, not the good ones. It might help improve a tank on learning threat control and damage mitigation, or a healer on keeping everyone alive. For a DPS however all it does is create AoE happy bad players. And when harder dungeons come out the reason why people cry for nerfs is because they can't mass pull and burn at first. If you train people to burn down 30 things at once instead speed killing smaller groups then you have to break that mindset and get them to play correctly when needed for harder gameplay.

[Geist]

Actually, what you're describing is why we don't have better players. Mass pulling and "burn baby, burn" creates the bad players, not the good ones.

Agreed.
What's more, the average trash mob in Heavensward comes with a marked increase in both HP and damage output in comparison to its ARR counterparts: the party should first gauge how much they can handle.

Optimizing strategies and prioritizing hits, especially in a DF environment, sounds like the reasonable way to go -- quality versus quantity. No DPS loss either, since you're simply deploying your firepower in a more efficient fashion.

[Malevicton]

snip

you could easily flip that around though. If players only ever do ST rotations then they'll "get bad" at AoE. Dungeons are there for you to apply your skills, not learn them.

And people didn't call nerfs on PS for hard trash, they called nerfs on the bosses. People were fine with the trash, and that's the only real example.

You have an idea of "play correctly" that is more of a personal preference. Which is fine, until you start telling other people they're wrong because of it.

[Staris]

Actually, what you're describing is why we don't have better players. Mass pulling and "burn baby, burn" creates the bad players, not the good ones. It might help improve a tank on learning threat control and damage mitigation, or a healer on keeping everyone alive. For a DPS however all it does is create AoE happy bad players. And when harder dungeons come out the reason why people cry for nerfs is because they can't mass pull and burn at first. If you train people to burn down 30 things at once instead speed killing smaller groups then you have to break that mindset and get them to play correctly when needed for harder gameplay.

No and your bad if you think that.
The encounters are so pathetically easy the only challenge can be to min max it 2 seconds faster than your last speed run by improving group dps, and minimizing overhealing / tanking threat waste.
Both of which actually matter in progression raiding too.

The getting it done sooner is just a bonus.

[CompSci88]

If a tank wipes us pulling too much, I definitely don't get mad. Good on you for pushing yourself. You're trying to improve everyone in the group.

If you pull one pack at a time, I will pull for you, tank things myself,and eventually initiate a vote kick.

We as a community need to breed better players. The average skill level of ffxiv players is horrifyingly low. Pushing yourself is the only way to improve.

This guy speak the truth. If you're aren't pushing yourself to do more, you're gonna be bad forever.

[Fevelle]

This guy speak the truth. If you're aren't pushing yourself to do more, you're gonna be bad forever.

Pushing yourself isn't going to increase your raw healing power/enmity generation. If a DPS/Tank pulls too much, beyond the character's (and not the player's) limit, you will just wipe and wipe again. That's why DPS doesn't decide how much or when a mob will be pulled.

[Malevicton]

Pushing yourself isn't going to increase your raw healing power/enmity generation. If a DPS/Tank pulls too much, beyond the character's (and not the player's) limit, you will just wipe and wipe again. That's why DPS doesn't decide how much or when a mob will be pulled.

Problem with that is that it is the player's limits, not the characters. Solid players were speedrunning fractal/neverreap at i150. Not everyone should be held to that standard, but if you're i170+, then it's not a character limit anymore.

If you're fine with the level of skill you're at, then w/e, but let's not pretend it's the game's fault.

[Heavensword]

Problem with that is that it is the player's limits, not the characters. Solid players were speedrunning fractal/neverreap at i150. Not everyone should be held to that standard, but if you're i170+, then it's not a character limit anymore.

If you're fine with the level of skill you're at, then w/e, but let's not pretend it's the game's fault.

What "speedrun" you speak of as i150? Because I tried that with a full group of i150 in Neverreap, pull every mob on each "gate" and it still felt slow as hell. The result is almost always the same: the healer don't get to dps because the trash is hitting hard enough to negate a lot of incoming heals, me, as the tank, cycled through all my CD except for Hallowed Ground and Sentinel and each trash pack took like 2 mins to die. There is certainly no "speed" in any aspect of it.

It seems like people confuse/attribute "Speedrun" to "pull-a-lot-of-mobs" and not taking into accounts as to the actual time it takes to kill those mobs. I can pull the entire dungeon right on top of your head, but if you still going to need 30 min to kill everything I pulled, then how is that different than killing 1-2 pack at the time? To me, "speedrun" should be the actual speed that requires to complete the dungeon NOT the number of mobs sticking onto a tank at a time.