Bard qq

[Aiselia]

Square's choice to give them the damage they wanted, but take away the freedom to do it while bunnyhopping around between 5-30y away via a toggled ability was a choice I respect, and all of the above is why. That's all I wanted to say.

It's a choice you respect because you don't play a Bard.

Cast times affect a lot more on a Bard than their mobility.

[Panasync]

Square's choice to give them the damage they wanted, but take away the freedom to do it while bunnyhopping around between 5-30y away via a toggled ability was a choice I respect, and all of the above is why. That's all I wanted to say.

They didn't give us the damage we wanted, in fact our damage is about on par with where it was prior to 3.0 (doubled damage, but all jobs were doubled some jobs more than doubled, so there really was no increase) and we have to use a crappy stance in-order to do what we were doing in 2.5.

It doesn't make any sense. People have no idea what they're talking about, the job didn't get a damage increase for the most part our damage is exactly the same, but we're forced into casting times and immobility just so we can do THE SAME DAMAGE.

[Elikzords]

For quite some time, BRD players have been obviously complaining about their lack of damage as ARR went on too.

Square's choice to give them the damage they wanted, but take away the freedom to do it while bunnyhopping around between 5-30y away via a toggled ability was a choice I respect, and all of the above is why. That's all I wanted to say.

This would true if we actually did damage close to the other classes. Don't get me wrong, I don't intend for BRDs to be ripping apart at the charts but having relevant DPS to help us keep up with the other classes would be nice. I don't really have an issue adjusting with the new way a BRD is played as well but it is clearly evident that the BRD was not designed to be a casting class. Cycling oGCD's and trying to pump out as many BL as fast as we can has actually become extremely difficult. If they had designed WM a little better I don't think the issue would have been as big as it is now. Sometimes it honestly just feels like they kind of just slapped it on and didn't really care for what was going to happen.

Whatever the case, we will all just have to wait and hopefully in the future there will be changes that will make the class more enjoyably to everyone. But until then everyone is just going to have to tough it up or move on sadly.

Just to clear it up to everyone as well. We, as BRDs, are indisputably a DPS class with support skills regardless of what Yoshida, the devs, or anyone else says. The game itself has labeled us as a DPS class, and until a new mechanic is introduced to take us away from that, concerns of having relevant DPS will always be there. The argument of us being a support class not needing DPS is invalid as it is our "Primary" concern according to the role we preform in the system.

[Aiselia]

without any of the downsides each role has

Why do they need more downsides when they already have inherently lower weapon damage on top of a 15% damage loss when they use 2/3 of their support songs, a damage drop which no other class gets?

Why do they need to be punished to stand still and have cast times just to try to make up that gap in inherently lower damage?

Can you give me an actual reason?

[Kaith]

Yeah this was similar to my first comments to friends. It just isn't fun to play. Like you said it feels slow and clunky which when you have as many abilities as BRD is just a bad combination. It's an exercise in futility to try keep on top of oGCD's right now.

I've mained ARC since 1.0 and I think this is the most dissatisfied I've been with the job. This is even harder to take on the chin than the huge nerf they gave around 1.2 or 1.22 (from best DPS to worst in 1 update). It's such a huge playstyle change as 2.0 BRD and WM BRD are polar opposites. BRD's sheer number of oGCD's are not a good fit for WM's casting times.

Right now I've told my LS/FC that I won't play BRD in any serious content (which right now there isn't any anyway). It's not fun and I'd feel like a liability. So I'm quickly levelling my PLD so I can play that until they fix BRD

[Sylve]

I giggle every time i see people complain "managing ogcd skills"
We have 3.
Count them, THREE. One has a 1 minute cooldown, the other 2 are 15 seconds. (Bloodletter shares recast with RoD, so not 2 separate skills)

Bloodletter has been macro'd into Heavy Shot since level 15, Empy Arrow slots neatly between any cast and RoF can be thrown down whenever i want.

If you cannot manage to fit 3 oGCDs around a 1.5 second cast with a 2.5 second recast, the problem certainly isn't Minuet.

[Aiselia]

We have 3.

Bloodletter/RoD, Emp. Arrow, Repelling Shot, Blunt Arrow, Misery's End, Flaming Arrow, Sidewinder, plus buffs?

I haven't been in school for a while, so maybe my math is rusty, but I count more than 3.

Bloodletter also isn't necessarily a 15 second cooldown. It could be anywhere from 0 to 15 seconds depending on procs. And you can't use it while casting, but you could easily use it when dealing with instant shots.

[Sylve]

Bloodletter/RoD, Emp. Arrow, Repelling Shot, Blunt Arrow, Misery's End, Flaming Arrow, Sidewinder, plus buffs?

I haven't been in school for a while, so maybe my math is rusty, but I count more than 3.

Bloodletter also isn't necessarily a 15 second cooldown. It could be anywhere from 0 to 15 seconds depending on procs. And you can't use it while casting, but you could easily use it when dealing with instant shots.

Blunt Arrow serves a purpose, Silence. Sometimes you can use it every cooldown due to no silence required mechanics, (to be fair most times) but is otherwise not exactly a main rotational skill. Thus conditional.
Misery's End is only usable for the last 20% of a fight. Again, not exactly rotational, Also conditional.
Repelling Shot is a defensive shot, especially with WM, you lose far more than gain from the 80 potency shot by trying to use it every time its up. Therefore conditional.

BL/RoD share recast, so it's effectively one skill, you simply decide whether you need AoE or not. Being macro'd to Heavy Shot, BL is going to fire off the split second it procs anyway.
Flaming Arrow is a 1 minute recast, easily slotted in anywhere after a weaponskill.
Empy Arrow is easily slotted after ANY weaponskill. Hell, most of the time I've got another shot casting before i even hit the ground during the animation.
Sidewinder i cannot comment on, as i don't yet have it.

So thats 7 total off global attacks you can use, 3 of which are heavily conditional and not part of our main rotations.
You use em when you can, not because they're essential in the way BL and Empy are.
Damage cooldowns are a whole other thing, but again, easily slotted in amongst weapon skill recast times. I don't count these towards "off global skills to manage" because you are not necessarily going to need to slam it the very instant it comes available. On a dummy, sure. In a real fight? Not so much.

You have an entire second in which to throw out an off global skill, be it Bloodletter or Raging Strikes. Minuet only changed our timings.

[RiceisNice]

...

Blunt arrow has been unconditional unless it was T2 or T9. There are very little fights that a silence is needed that I'd consider blunt arrow an uncondition oGCD that should be used whenever possible for damage.

Misery's End, while it requires 20% hp, is still an oGCD and adds onto the problems of bards being able to only weave one during WM. That's still a heft damage loss even in context of bloodletter or repelling shot.

Repelling shot whether you use it for defensive purposes or not (being situational, such as T13 for earthshakers), it's still a damage oGCD. What seperated a good bard from a mediocre one was one that can use it off cooldown and not suffer any repercussions.

Also, you don't macro bloodletter to heavy shot, ever. Causes skill clipping and you'd be losing dps in a long fight.

Sidewinder is also oGCD. The matter of fact is, bard has a lot of oGCDs to work with, and unless they used a instant straight shot proc, you're only going to be able to weave one inbetween each cast. Every second that any of those skills are not on cooldown is wasted damage in the long run, especially if bloodletter resets twice in one oGCD (which has happened plenty of times for me).

Edit : I also noticed that you keep saying rotational. Bard is not a rotational class. They've always worked on a priority skill list, using oGCDs as they come off cooldown and specific skills if the situation demands it (do you have SS up, are Dots up, do you have a proc, so on and so fourth)

[Aiselia]

Snip

Repelling Shot was really easy to use when you had 100% mobility, and it was always a gain because you didn't need to stop shooting. Now you do, so that's harder to use.
Blunt Arrow has incredibly limited use as a silence, so I'd say your assertion that it's conditional is actually false. In a vast majority of encounters, you will use it whenever it's up.
Flaming Arrow is harder to use simply because you can't trigger the target circle while casting.

As for BL, you seem to keep ignoring that it isn't a guaranteed 15 second cooldown or a reliable proc rate. Without WM, you could really mash the button and get 100% of procs. With WM, you could end up missing several because it procs multiple times during a cast time.

I think this can really be summed up as: You never tried to maximize your DPS, and are trying to tell people who did why they're wrong.