Content should be challenging to execute... Not challenging to learn

[Wavaryen]

I agree with you op, but this forum has a lot of elitist mindset. "You like to solo? You should not play mmo" "You don't want to read a book to do a boss. MMO not for you." "Skill Bloat? Get gud"

Tedious does not mean tough, but people seem to think so.

[Wizarus]

Well Titan at its core is a simple fight, but at its time, had people raging at it like it was an impassable wall. He had people shamelessly allowing themselves to be suckered into buying clears.

I actually agree with the OP, ridiculous bizarre mechanics that require you to wipe repeatedly until you have a clue of what going on(largely by accident), isn't fun or challenging, its tedious.

[NinjaDante]

People like the OP here are the worst kind of MMO players. They complain about stuff like meteors in t9 and make ridiculous claims like it would be impossible to figure out on your own. YET you didn't figure them out on your own you probably watched a video and then complained you couldn't follow a guide to beat it. That sounds like a lack of technical skill and that's not the developers fault.

NO it's not impossible because if you were learning the fight with no prior knowledge you would see the meteors explode if you just kill all the golems, so you would think OH somehow I gotta get rid of them and then you would then see a golem eat one. So you would try feeding them and then seeing that a golem with more than 3 wipes you, so then you would spread them between golems and come up with the strategy everyone uses today. It's a process of logic and it's not hard, it just requires patience and dedication.

The fact that you instantly want to know how to do everything and beat it first try, shows the kind of person you are. You just want to take the easy road and never be challenged. That is not something most people find fun and is in fact very boring for most. The fact that most people watch a video instead of figuring out a fight for themselves shows the kind of pathetic instant gratification society we live in and it's really disappointing to see.

[Chihaya]

Not to mention people have came up with different meteor handling methods and even different golem kill orders - things that people figure out themselves to see what works better for their team - not just blindly following a guide.

[Sapphic]

Where do you think those guides came from? SE didnt make them for those who figured out the mechanics and wrote guides. Turn 9 can be learnt with trial and error (like any raid boss) and, importantly, observation. Turn 9 phase 3, you mention the fire, ice and lightning, did you read the debuffs? they pretty much tell you.

Thing is, as content gets older and more players learn the fight it makes it unfair going in blind to learn by trial and error when the rest of the party know the mechanics. Which is why players prefer some preperation work be done first. To get everyone as close as possible to the same point of knowledge of the fight.

The fact that most people watch a video instead of figuring out a fight for themselves shows the kind of pathetic instant gratification society we live in and it's really disappointing to see.

It's one thing making a party where everyone is at the same level and wanting to learn it blind when it's old content, it's another going in with 7 more who know the fight then expecting to be able to learn it blind. Not to mention, from experience, most who claim they want to learn it blind, first thing they say is "What do I do?". Which is a contradiction in the way they are unwilling to read a guide, yet they are also willing to read a guide written in party chat.

[Outfoxed]

Dear OP, I don't know how to say this in the nicest way possible.... FF14 is EASY EASY EASY game with maybe only 10% of the content is reserved for "hardcore" gamer. There are countless videos (3 minutes long for each guide) to show you the bosses mechanic - and a short description on Wiki FF14 on what you should be doing. ALL of the level 15-50 dungeons teaches you the basic mechanic, you also have guildhest. The high levels 50 dungeons are also fairly straightforward and many players can give you quick tips on what to do on each bosses. Level 51-59 dungeons are rather easy to figure out as well. Bottom line, as harsh as this sound, just get better and use party finder to practice. Otherwise you can just do crafting, or if this is too hard, maybe this game is not for you.

So you call this game easy yet you are consulting a guide? You call this game easy yet you're almost forced to know every single action and mechanic a boss does? I find that rather ironic don't you? How many games do you have to consult guides for to even have a chance of clearing content in a few hours?

I don't know how to tell you this but you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. If you have to consult a guide to even know what a boss is doing, that boss by definition is unintuitive or extremely difficult.

You dont need skill to fight most bosses in this game. You just need to know how to memorize things. So that would make boss fights in this game unintuitive

But seriously, I'm tired of people who cant even spark together a couple brain cells and realize that difficulty and knowledge requirements are completely different things. You would think people would realize this but apparently not..... For example, any idiot can play soccer. Put ball inside net, don't use hands. But yet how come the number of people who are professional soccer players are so few? Because difficulty does not always equal mechanical overload. Content can be hard without requiring you to read a book.

Let me know when you actually put some thought to your argument.

Oh yeah and fyi, if you can dodge a mechanic before it even comes out, that's not called skill. That's called memorization.

In short, get good and learn to play without having the crutch of knowing everything the boss will do 5 seconds before he does it

[Chihaya]

Alexander got cleared within 2hr after it came out... you say they followed a guide? There wasn't one.
Did watching video or reading a guide to memorize things give you a free pass to clear t9 or t13? Probably not, you had to actually experience them, survive them and healers to heal through the high damage while dealing with such mechanics.

Remove the mechanics add in a DPS check - that's Bismark Ex that you are so fond of. Dodging a few telegraphs and hitting dragonkillers when the game tells you to - yea... challenge...

[Bluejay]

Content should be challenging to execute... Not challenging to learn

Your fundamental statement is wrong. There are MANY games that requires failure, repetition and memorization. Many of the games are highly acclaimed and played by large numbers of players. A few as example. Ikaruga, Dark Souls, Most Mario platform games, etc...

There are many games that DO NOT use this approach, but it is a perfectly legitimate approach to design.

You might not LIKE the types of game that work like this, and you are well within your right to NOT like them. Of course, then I must ask why you are still playing this game and haven't moved on to something more to your tastes?

[WinterLuna]

There is a good combination of both hard-to-learn mechanics and easy ones in this game. I personally enjoy spending time with my static to learn and progress each phase on a fight. It took us two weeks to learn and down T13 and I really enjoyed the learning curve.

[Jatoi]

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Not to mention I see it as a consideration when people brush up and research on whatever they're going into. It saves time.

At least I do it since I don't want to stress us out by going in blind and learning by a wipe that we shouldn't do x.