Content should be challenging to execute... Not challenging to learn

[Kiara1]

Go do coils using minimum ilvl sync and click off echo. And then note that the world first people completed them at ilvls below even that. If that's not a challenge for some people, they probably need to switch genres (but only some really niche games will be harder than that).

Is there a video of that fight? (where they beat it in less than min ilvl req) I really want to see it! I've had too many blms using freeze as an aoe skill today need to see some skilled players

[ulti_19]

Megaman games on nes had challenging mechanics... just saying Those games made games like this one look like a happy-land without any danger xD

I do agree that it is hard to pick up what to do to learn a mechanic the first time without watching a guide because this game has horrible clues to help steer you to not die. It will either kill you and you learn from your death, or you are told what to do and don't learn for yourself. This game is more memory focused than reaction or skill, if you know the pattern, or where to stand at what time etc, that 2 mobs spawn and need to be kited to the oppostie sides of the room, etc mechanics like this, then you are golden.

[MisterLucie]

The issue is that your magical fight that has few mechanics but is still difficult doesn't exist. Bismarck was not hard, he was a Patchwerk with some simple "dodge this" mechanics thrown in. That's not difficult nor is it even remotely intuitive.

Real difficulty in a boss encounter comes from being able to master various difficult mechanics while also performing your role perfectly. You take the various difficult mechanics out and all you have left is a boss that only requires you to play your class properly and then hands you loot... like Bismarck.

[Velia]

The issue is that your magical fight that has few mechanics but is still difficult doesn't exist.

Bahamut Prime wants a word with you.
Though it still has counter intuitive mechanics, at least it doesn't spray you with a ton of them.

As an side it saddens me that so many are willing to accept the illogic of typical MMO raid mechanics that can only be mastered with trial and error.
I'm not saying trial and error is an entirely bad thing though.. (of course, intolerant clear and "learning" groups do). However it seems that nowadays it's just taken for granted that a boss's actions will leave you clueless unless you've read a guide or repeatedly experienced it the hard way.

Hell, in Ravana you must do a different thing with the SAME MECHANIC (specifically, Prey) depending on the stage of the fight. In fact, while the first Prey is intuitive enough (we know that Prey in this game means you should generally run to a tank), the second suddenly becomes "stand way over here and wait for someone to come to you".

I've had it up to here with replies of "get good" from wannabe blue gartrs. It's not a question of "getting good", it's a question of some of us wanting fun, intuitive fights that are a challenge and not step-by-step checklists.

[StrejdaTom]

As others already stated. The difference between Bismarck EM and T9 is, that Bismarck EM is faceroll primal that has been already cleared by anyone who has 2 hands while T9 was and still can be pretty challenging and well thought fight.
And honestly if there were only fights at the same difficulty like Bismarck EM there would not be any raiders/statics etc anymore, because there would be no end game content for such people. By the way there werent so many mechanics in T9 and the guides had under 10 minutes.

[lololink]

T9 on the other hand was full of ridiculous and unintuitive mechanics. Writing out your name with meteors, doing the hokey pokey with fire, ice and lightning, feeding your neopets on meteors.... I mean seriously, how would I know that golems like eating meteors?

By using logic, There are meteor falling, you can see that you can't stack them, then golems pop out of meteors, if you kill them without letting them eat the meteors, then other meteors will pop and probably wipe the raid, then you should think : there might be a way to destroy the meteor, you will surely try things and discover that golems can eat meteors.

Also for Ice Fire and Thunder it's quite easy to understand, someone will automatically get hit by both and see that it cancel each others.

The only annoying part for T9 is the dives but after a few try and analyze of the situation you can see patterns and work on a reaction.

[Outfoxed]

By using logic, There are meteor falling, you can see that you can't stack them, then golems pop out of meteors, if you kill them without letting them eat the meteors, then other meteors will pop and probably wipe the raid, then you should think : there might be a way to destroy the meteor, you will surely try things and discover that golems can eat meteors.

Also for Ice Fire and Thunder it's quite easy to understand, someone will automatically get hit by both and see that it cancel each others.

The only annoying part for T9 is the dives but after a few try and analyze of the situation you can see patterns and work on a reaction.

What?

Are you trying to tell me trial and error is intuitive?

By definition trial and error is NOT intuitive. Trial and error is throwing things at the wall until something sticks.

I would use the words "by your logic" like you but we both know there was no logic

[Higashikata]

What?

Are you trying to tell me trial and error is intuitive?

By definition trial and error is NOT intuitive. Trial and error is throwing things at the wall until something sticks.

I would use the words "by your logic" like you but we both know there was no logic

How would you design raid mechanics then? I'm actually curious on this.

[lololink]

What?

Are you trying to tell me trial and error is intuitive?

By definition trial and error is NOT intuitive. Trial and error is throwing things at the wall until something sticks.

I would use the words "by your logic" like you but we both know there was no logic

It is logic, you have an issue, you try things to fix it. Dark souls and other die and retry games do it and people like it, its not all memories, you have to react quickly too.

[Viridiana]

Are you trying to tell me trial and error is intuitive?

By definition trial and error is NOT intuitive. Trial and error is throwing things at the wall until something sticks.

I'm curious what you do when your intuition tells you two things that lead to two mutually exclusive outcomes. Like if it were to tell you that meteors are bad but that golems eating meteors is also bad.